tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post5704583002410952724..comments2024-03-28T23:07:35.632-07:00Comments on Cliff Mass Weather Blog: UW Admissions and the Budget CutsCliff Mass Weather Bloghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13948649423540350788noreply@blogger.comBlogger59125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-45835991774680561932011-04-22T08:36:10.459-07:002011-04-22T08:36:10.459-07:00Cliff is attacking the wrong target in Eyman; he s...Cliff is attacking the wrong target in Eyman; he should be attacking the Democrats who siphoned the funds to other "social" projects. After all, our tax burder (as a percentage of our income) has, thanks to Eyman, stayed pretty constant at about 9.5% over the last 30 years. It's gone up a bit (to around 10.5%) and then back down when pro-citizen (aka "tax payer") intiatives won, but it's still about the same constant level. Total receipts are up by a huge amount.<br /><br />Unfortunately, educators don't get much experience with business or applied economics; hence the view that we should be raising taxes rather than going back to the distributions that worked 30 years ago - which would mean cutting some arts, some social programs, etc., but restoring UW funding.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-76146090474088207242011-04-18T18:45:00.378-07:002011-04-18T18:45:00.378-07:00Cliff, I have been following the saga of math educ...Cliff, I have been following the saga of math education in Washington state since I moved here in 2007. I was very hopeful the light bulb would come on, but I can't see that happening. I will definitely be sticking to my original plan of moving back to the east coast to put my kids in school when that time comes.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15514514348719539624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-64374975813284791472011-04-15T22:19:10.929-07:002011-04-15T22:19:10.929-07:00Saying we're in "exciting times," Go...Saying we're in "exciting times," Gov. Christine Gregoire on Tuesday proposed dramatically increasing state spending by more than $4 billion over the next two years. [2007]<br />http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003486428_budget20m0.html<br /><br />I guess we are not in such exciting times now. Not quite sure it is Tim Eyman's fault though.Munseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17855874413022710463noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-63005431296542482002011-04-15T12:49:15.282-07:002011-04-15T12:49:15.282-07:00Thanks for your honest assessment. I really like ...Thanks for your honest assessment. I really like the point that - qualified students from out of state are likely to stay here and benefit us all.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08243326434892839364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-16912621733424129202011-04-14T18:47:44.372-07:002011-04-14T18:47:44.372-07:00Sorry... but I disagree... and I went there (ROTC ...Sorry... but I disagree... and I went there (ROTC '81) as did my son (English '05).<br /><br />If you put the institution ahead of the people of this state, then fine. But this school belongs to the people of THIS state. And educating OUR children comes before anything else.<br /><br />The school you're describing is private. The University must be responsive to the needs of the children here... because the folks out of state are not the ones sacrificing to keep you people in operation.<br /><br />Throwing money at the problem as some here have advocated ("You get what you pay for" might provide some small measure of comfort to those actually get paid, but that fact is that if this was true, we would be a great deal more willing to fork over OUR money for YOUR wages) is not the way to go.<br /><br />As an example, Seattle Public Schools showed a $12,355 per student cost... and that place is a train wreck.<br /><br />So, no. There is no excuse for recruiting out of state. No plausible explanation. No acceptable reason... because grade inflation is just as much an issue out of state as it is in state.<br /><br />THIS state must come first.<br /><br />I used to be proud to by a Husky.<br /><br />Now?<br /><br />Not so much.K.J. Hintonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04071279261669117974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-60084477280446133412011-04-14T14:58:42.792-07:002011-04-14T14:58:42.792-07:00I graduated from high school in Washington in 1996...I graduated from high school in Washington in 1996. I then attended college and discovered that I was in way over my head. I had no study skills, didn't know how to take notes, talk to teachers, etc. I was a honor roll student from K-12, but was barely managing a C average in college. I finally took a break from school and spent 8 years in the military. My reading, writing, studying, and communication skills improved greatly as a result of those 8 years. I returned to college in 2006 and graduated three years later with an A- GPA. Sadly, I found most of my fellow students, especially those right out of high school, to be even less prepared than I was 15 years ago. I worked one on one tutoring other students, from almost every state and many countries. The only students who had refined college level skills were those from other countries. While this is a big problem for Washington, it is a huge problem nationwide.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01256077519947154299noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-75777614128753237872011-04-14T08:09:12.303-07:002011-04-14T08:09:12.303-07:00The US is currently the wealthiest country in the ...The US is currently the wealthiest country in the history of humanity.<br /><br />But we can't afford to educate children?<br /><br />Something rotten is going on.<br /><br />Michigan may have built a good university, but that has not helped build the economy there.<br /><br /><br />Calls to reduce government spending are not well thought out. I have lived all over the US and observe that all local economies depend upon government spending.<br /><br />Consider Western Washington:<br />Commercial aviation would not exist without public subsidy, that, and defense contracts keep Boeing going.<br />The government allows Microsoft to have a monopoly on operating systems.<br />The Army, Air Force and Navy bases throw lots of money into the local economy.E.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17666871307899059049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-24927924774722546732011-04-13T19:12:48.712-07:002011-04-13T19:12:48.712-07:00thank you. a ray of sunshine amid some very stormy...thank you. a ray of sunshine amid some very stormy days.ShinMiRyeohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06677535055821500141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-88468666253424099962011-04-13T19:10:36.288-07:002011-04-13T19:10:36.288-07:00Wonderful to read this post and the many comments!...Wonderful to read this post and the many comments! As a UW grad and after teaching 15+ years in the Washington state community college system, I agree with much of what Cliff Mass, meteorologist/educator, shares. <br /><br />Painful as it may be, we can’t just cry, “Poor me.” A product of public schools and universities, I remain an advocate for public education, yet K-20 standards must change. I began teaching in New England and know the disparity in standards, in both K-12 and then at the CC. We need to raise our expectations before college, the number of math courses required, for example, and treat students with respect—supporting them to use those high school years to actually GAIN knowledge, skills, and useful experiences. Though the best students can land at university and then fail due to all sorts of reasons, we need to create a more serious school system—one that challenges all students beyond their comfort zone. <br /><br />Some students aren’t ready for the UW: if they really want to go to college, they can start somewhere else. We have excellent choices including the many CCs in Washington. Some students aren’t ready for any college, and this is the next question we will likely need to address.<br /><br />Eyman’s power, his success in swaying the sorts of legislation that too many Washington voters applauded, is sad: Short-sighted, this “me-only” approach leads to more crumbling community. We each need to look at the way we live, how we make choices and stop blaming.Lucahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04754295129901648842noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-529639141138499602011-04-13T18:09:06.366-07:002011-04-13T18:09:06.366-07:00Wow, the whole private school thing being good for...Wow, the whole private school thing being good for UW and Washington is a wrong and dangerous notion for our society. I'm disappointed in your championship of that.Khamishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15505190066534022279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-90008763626941707232011-04-13T14:27:22.276-07:002011-04-13T14:27:22.276-07:00I graduated from Sammamish and UoW and know Cliff&...I graduated from Sammamish and UoW and know Cliff's oft mentioned lamentations about math are true. If a full prof taught 3 five credit courses instead of only 2, there would be an unfair and uncompensated doubling of the workload. Eyman will eventually die and then we will thankfully be able to restore the salaries, benefits and pensions of government employees back to where they should have been all along before he passed away. We happily paid Emmert a million a year because he fabulously jacked up the endowment, which, unfortunately, can't be used to build a decent general headquarters for atmospheric sciences. I don't understand why Eyman did that to Cliff and Company. Years ago I stopped reacting during pledge week after I learned Bernie was being paid $450k/yr at KCTS. Just as will happen to Eyman, Bernie is gone but they haven't told me how much Bernie's replacement is paid. But at the end of the day, given Seattle Liberals have absolute totalitarian control of the Legislature, it's really confounding that they, of all people, would do the things they have actually done to the UoW, as Cliff has explained. Really now, wasn't it Bush who actually did these things?wildbillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01389489199105186950noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-10935012614452241762011-04-13T12:10:44.156-07:002011-04-13T12:10:44.156-07:00I agree that there should always be a path for kid...I agree that there should always be a path for kids who otherwise would never go to college to somehow get there. (The commenter w/the dad w/the 8th-grade education comes to mind.) That's why we have community colleges with a very lenient transfer policy to our universities like UW. However, that does not mean that we should lower the standards of UW. As others have noted, we need to beef up our K-12 education, as well as our community college system. As a math instructor myself, I have seen too many kids in need of remediation with reasonably high GPAs (3.5 or higher) coming out of high school. All that means is that high school is a joke and that many of these kids are very underprepared for college. In fact, I agree w/Cliff that many of them shouldn't go to university at all. I would like to see our state invest heavily in trade schools and apprenticeship programs. After all, a good electrician or tailor or plumber can really make a great living (judging from my last electrician's/seamstress's/plumber's bills!), and those are jobs that can't be shipped overseas!Tinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04334607781026248956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-38468194345297787502011-04-13T12:06:29.161-07:002011-04-13T12:06:29.161-07:00Wonderful to read this post and the many comments!...Wonderful to read this post and the many comments! As a UW grad and after teaching 15+ years in the Washington state community college system, I agree with much of what Cliff Mass, meteorologist/educator, shares. <br /><br />Painful as it may be, we can’t just cry, “Poor me.” A product of public schools and universities, I remain an advocate for public education, yet K-20 standards must change. I began teaching in New England and know the disparity in standards, in both K-12 and then at the CC. We need to raise our expectations before college, the number of math courses required, for example, and treat students with respect—supporting them to use those high school years to actually GAIN knowledge, skills, and useful experiences. Though the best students can land at university and then fail due to all sorts of reasons, we need to create a more serious school system—one that challenges all students beyond their comfort zone. <br /><br />Some students aren’t ready for the UW: if they really want to go to college, they can start somewhere else. We have excellent choices including the many CCs in Washington. Some students aren’t ready for any college, and this is the next question we will likely need to address.<br /><br />Eyman’s power, his success in swaying the sorts of legislation that too many Washington voters applauded, is sad: Short-sighted, this “me-only” approach leads to more crumbling community. We each need to look at the way we live, how we make choices and stop blaming.Lucahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04754295129901648842noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-66861871292952964812011-04-13T09:24:16.160-07:002011-04-13T09:24:16.160-07:00Boohoo. Everyone is suffering. You can't conti...Boohoo. Everyone is suffering. You can't continue living high on the hog in these times. Where is the shared sense of sacrifice?Alexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11205752419540502278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-85581450070679174262011-04-13T07:42:09.945-07:002011-04-13T07:42:09.945-07:00Thank you.Thank you.Fred Hansonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14819668966756156990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-49829165901682392182011-04-12T15:50:06.766-07:002011-04-12T15:50:06.766-07:00You mention "candidates who don't underst...You mention "candidates who don't understand the importance of investing in our schools and our future" and then say that privatization will bring stability and other benefits. <br /><br />Funding for universities won't be any more stable than the economy and the employment rate are, but rich kids will always be able to go.<br /><br />With public universities privatized, they'll be free of public scrutiny and standards. Given that something like 40% of the population does not recognize the reality of biological evolution, that will be a disaster.kmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04609729519467944400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-22227318925656306942011-04-12T10:50:53.448-07:002011-04-12T10:50:53.448-07:00Actually the transformation of UW, of which I am a...Actually the transformation of UW, of which I am an alumnus ('95), to a private or semi-private is needed. The PNW lacks a strong, private research class university. I envision UW becoming the Northwestern or even the Stanford of the PNW. The state legislature, over a period of decades, has reneged on its commitment to true education, at all levels, in this state.<br /><br />Set UW free and focus the moneys elsewhere within the systemMichaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03592060363558323782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-53274028569118640842011-04-12T10:29:09.771-07:002011-04-12T10:29:09.771-07:00For the person complaining that this is a weather ...For the person complaining that this is a weather blog and not a forum for educational issues, I refer you to many other posts regarding Cliff's strong interest in improving education, both secondary and university. That's one of the things I like about this blog, given it touches not only on weather but the education of those who will forecast it in the future. <br /><br />Our future as a country is strongly tied to the quality of our schools, and after living in Asia for a decade and watching how hard students (and their parents!) work at education, I was quite shocked to come back to the US to see how weak our schools are, and how little the taxpayers (and often parents of students) care for funding education. <br /><br />As far as I'm concerned, anyone who actively drives the discussion on how to improve education gets my support. Kudos to Cliff for honestly sharing his views on UW, past, present and future.John Marshallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08271037292493818827noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-59881303322171829462011-04-12T10:14:34.898-07:002011-04-12T10:14:34.898-07:00Cliff,
I appreciate you reaching out of weather a...Cliff, <br />I appreciate you reaching out of weather and addressing other topics related to your profession. I am shocked that a class of 240 has 2, or even 3, TA's. When I was at UW in the '90s we had about 8 TAs for the large chem classes. It was still a lot of work, and the UW did not prepare us, the TAs, very well for the job. In fact, I had some poor marks to dish out on the teaching front, and care-for-individuals front as well. But I sincerely appreciate your take on this issue.<br />You often mention the need for math skills-- I have excellent math skills, and three higher degrees from UW, yet have not been able to find work in my field, so I wonder if that is continuing the myth that we need scientists and engineers. Perhaps all we really need is a basic competency in math and science for everyone, including artists and English majors.<br />But back to the point-- what about community colleges? That "lower 25%" would find their way through the CC system, and either get the personalized help they need, or move onto what they do need. I went directly to a University, with B-/C+ in my (500 person, non-English-speaking TA) major classes the first year, but I continued onto a phd. Students who are unmotivated may need some time to figure out how to engage, but those who don't are not helped by a good teacher. There is only so much you can do for a person, and providing opportunity for some of those lowest 25% to find their calling is valuable for some. We need to fund, and value, the CC system for those students who have challenges, such as not coming from families who can afford UW tuition plus the pricey meals on campus. <br />What do you think are benefits of going directly to UW versus taking classes at CC for two years, and then transferring? <br />Finally, if we need to locate funding for Universities, we might look a the prison budget. There is an inverse relationship between prison funding and University funding from the state.Euphoria Gibbonshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15376499450799110123noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-79705349291216837792011-04-12T09:16:58.208-07:002011-04-12T09:16:58.208-07:00Cliff, I agree with you, but not a lot has changed...Cliff, I agree with you, but not a lot has changed with regard to the bottom 25%. Forty years ago we called them the "soppers" because they "sopped up" the low grades. By the time you get to upper division, they are gone.Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14818979024131339228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-8432112722010790722011-04-12T09:01:10.388-07:002011-04-12T09:01:10.388-07:00I think some of you folks are missing the point. ...I think some of you folks are missing the point. The UW has to do what it can with the resources it has available. Since WE the taxpayers insist on uderfunding a world-renowned research institution, they have no choice but to adjust their enrollment. <br />If we want it to be a public instituion, than we should fund it accordingly. <br /><br />And attacking the teachers, especially someone as valuable as Cliff, is just more proof of our broken education system. <br /><br />And as a former T.A, I can attest to students poor basic math skills. Having come from the upper midwest, where Algebra is tought in elementary school, it was quite an eye-openeing experience.Ben Fhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06871029376487168286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-87321651541443454002011-04-12T00:08:24.195-07:002011-04-12T00:08:24.195-07:00Follow the Pied Piper of Eyman, "save" e...Follow the Pied Piper of Eyman, "save" enough money for a 32" TV for the powder room, punish your children. <br /><br />What's so hard to figure out about this?dbostromhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17688448471618219440noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-39005927456761363642011-04-11T22:48:11.644-07:002011-04-11T22:48:11.644-07:00To respond to a few points above:
--the money tha...To respond to a few points above:<br /><br />--the money that used to go to higher ed is going to health care for state workers, or for low income. This is how the delta can be so big between "regular" inflation and higher ed inflation.<br /><br />--it is just plain odd that the GPAs and scores are up, but that the undergrads taking Dr Mass' test of math basics do so poorly.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05042133899920134476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-81194331279093974192011-04-11T22:11:50.841-07:002011-04-11T22:11:50.841-07:00Cliff, you are right on the target. As a retired p...Cliff, you are right on the target. As a retired professor and academic administrator at one of the "directional" institutions in this state, I can vouch for the veracity of your analysis and the possible long term outcomes. The problems that we are seeing in ongoing cuts are, and will be devastating over the next several years. They are caused by: voters' anti-intellectualism - anti - science, and inability to understand what drives our state's engine. Equally to blame are the legislators who are either ideologically against knowledge as it corrupts young minds, or they are afraid of not getting re-elected. There is only one answer to the continuing issue in this state: a reorganized, predictible, and equitable tax structure such as that voted down in the recent election. Higher education should not be financed on the backs of those least able to pay and who themselves probably can't afford to send their own children to college, especially now.<br /><br />Ron K.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12528360225271113970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-1674621684580882592011-04-11T22:03:15.924-07:002011-04-11T22:03:15.924-07:00Cliff, you are right on the target. As a retired p...Cliff, you are right on the target. As a retired professor and academic administrator at one of the "directional" institutions in this state, I can vouch for the veracity of your analysis and the possible long term outcomes. The problems that we are seeing in ongoinag cuts are and will be devastating over the next several years. They are caused by: voters' anti-intellectualism - anti - science, and inability to understand what drives our state's engine. Equally to blame are the legislators who are either ideologically against knowledge as it corrupts young minds, or they are afraid of not getting re-elected. There is only one answer to the continuing issue in this state: a reorganized, predictible, and equitable tax structure such as that voted down in the recent election. Higher education should not be financed on the backs of those least able to pay and who themselves probably can't afford to send their own children to college, especially now.<br /><br />Ron K.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12528360225271113970noreply@blogger.com