tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post3760412218737509984..comments2024-03-28T10:16:44.231-07:00Comments on Cliff Mass Weather Blog: Climate Hype Hurts the Environment and Undermines Our SocietyCliff Mass Weather Bloghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13948649423540350788noreply@blogger.comBlogger69125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-17197643216556206712021-08-26T15:33:07.706-07:002021-08-26T15:33:07.706-07:00Most balanced look at PNW wildfire (and other rela...Most balanced look at PNW wildfire (and other related) issues I've seen to date. Thank you!Joe Hendrickshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04943820516328169982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-71751176468254482362021-08-25T18:56:57.719-07:002021-08-25T18:56:57.719-07:00Cliff,
This is way out of my relm. As a skeptic ...Cliff, <br /><br />This is way out of my relm. As a skeptic (which I believe all scientists should be, nothing is ever truly "settled" and further understanding and knowledge is stiffled by it) this may help the skeptics and the hypers. What about a proof of concept experiment. We always say the graphs and trends, but the "deniers" claim it could be natural trend, while the hypers see the graph continuing to grow and not plateu. I think we should have the ability to actually simulate earth and the sun, I think of glass sphear with a vacuum around it ect. I may have missed it with all the hype, but I remember Gore saying the pollution acting like a filter and we would be in deep freeze. I think a simple proof of concept experiment would help a lot on the basic concept of CO2 vs warming ect. <br /><br />Buddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01725713184480575034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-64115385053955027642021-08-24T15:07:22.515-07:002021-08-24T15:07:22.515-07:00Cliff: I'm late to the party on this. You ra...Cliff: I'm late to the party on this. You raise some excellent points about wildfire management. Fire suppression and growth of invasives have increased fire size and intensity. Thinning and prescribed fire could help a lot, but as another reader has noted, many fires occur on federal lands. Funding for such a costly effort never gets much traction in Congress. I know from my work with a federal agency that Forest Service political appointees also may order something different with the money, like doing salvage logging after the Biscuit Fire in Oregon got them funding to do treatments in Oregon forests.<br /><br />Also, if you could, please explain how climate hype in the media has gotten us bigger fires and more danger to citizens. I think that may be an exaggeration. Forest managers understand the problems and know what needs to be done.<br /><br />Finally, I'm wondering if you are still considering a post on solar minimums and maximums. I'd like your opinion on how these may more may not effect climate.Amateur Urbanisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17931543312011917453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-17523950713304433382021-08-23T08:25:22.391-07:002021-08-23T08:25:22.391-07:00wdolson,
the number you are providing are not...wdolson,<br /> the number you are providing are not correct. Gasoline requires less than .3 kwh per gallon to produce. Check out:<br /><br />https://www.cfr.org/blog/do-gasoline-based-cars-really-use-more-electricity-electric-vehicles-doCliff Mass Weather Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13948649423540350788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-21412874225644290432021-08-22T16:26:41.769-07:002021-08-22T16:26:41.769-07:00It looks like the OP got the inverse. 3 Mi/KWH is...It looks like the OP got the inverse. 3 Mi/KWH is normal for driving long distances at freeway speed. Around town closer to 4 Mi/KWH is normal.<br /><br />Another thing is that the predictions of all the extra electricity generation needed doesn't take into account how much electricity goes into refining gasoline. The petroleum industry tries to keep it secret, but refining gasoline consumes between 8 and 16 KWH of electricity from the grid per gallon of gasoline.<br /><br />For the energy off the grid needed to refine 1 gallon of gas you can drive a 3 Mi/KWH EV 24 miles.<br /><br />We also have many peaking plants that provided electricity for only an hour or two a day when needed (usually late afternoons). If we encouraged EV charging in the middle of the night when electricity usage is lowest (Tesla's already allow you to do this), and we ran the peaking units more, we have enough generating capacity. A study done in the UK showed that they could get over 50% EV adoption and charge them all with no problems without building a single new power plant, if they encouraged off peak charging.wdolsonPDXhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15232677133258097588noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-47141526435062508422021-08-22T08:59:44.809-07:002021-08-22T08:59:44.809-07:00Formal stance? I support the IPCC...I think it is ...Formal stance? I support the IPCC...I think it is a good thing. Why do you ask? Do you dislike it?Cliff Mass Weather Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13948649423540350788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-2988465849782101442021-08-21T21:07:27.843-07:002021-08-21T21:07:27.843-07:00No, they're not - but their trajectory (as an ...No, they're not - but their trajectory (as an early adopter of large-scale solar and wind) can't necessarily be extrapolated to other states that are now (20 years later) embarking upon a transition to mostly renewables. I think there are also serious governance and regulation problems in California in the electric sector, which complicates the issue. Not that there aren't governance problems in other states, but they're not all necessarily at the same magnitude as California.sierraddicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16364991458315724556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-70693814231873611792021-08-21T18:09:01.434-07:002021-08-21T18:09:01.434-07:00Cliff, what is your formal stance on the IPCC?
Do...Cliff, what is your formal stance on the IPCC?<br /><br />Do you have a formal statement on the IPCC 6.0 report that you would present publicly?<br />Not to us in your audience so much, but to the IPCC and the College on the Envornment anf the Department of Atmospheric Sciences. <br />The scientific community needs some clarity where you stand to the IPCC. JSMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05273859101073981649noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-70736084704171527842021-08-20T07:39:01.669-07:002021-08-20T07:39:01.669-07:00tofucactus...I don't think you are correct. P...tofucactus...I don't think you are correct. Poor forest management is a major contributor to bark beetles. Too many trees are in competition for the same water....less water per tree, which stresses the tree and makes them more susceptible to bark beetles. ...cliffCliff Mass Weather Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13948649423540350788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-72327923389695584092021-08-19T22:23:36.795-07:002021-08-19T22:23:36.795-07:00"Whatever you think about climate change, it ..."Whatever you think about climate change, it is a global problem that will require global action, and nothing WA can do unilaterally will affect that." This kind of reasoning makes no sense to me. If global action is required what does that entail besides many diffuse and local efforts adding up to global action and impact. And if that is true, the actions in Washington State or any state or locality constitute one part of those diffuse, local actions that add up to a global impact. If every state and locality follow your logic, there will be not global action to address climate change. Or may you are suggesting a global government dictate climate policy. While we need to set goals globally, the dictates of a global government would surely fail.Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12516473567680528083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-17114066028454834062021-08-19T17:19:20.305-07:002021-08-19T17:19:20.305-07:00If you want to do an accounting of who causes more...If you want to do an accounting of who causes more harm, the hysterical or the deniers, I'm here for you. Mike D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/10854792987160117508noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-42725042320435595312021-08-19T15:55:20.080-07:002021-08-19T15:55:20.080-07:00Poor "management" of forests doesn't...Poor "management" of forests doesn't appear to be the main reason for pine beetle infestation's rocketing growth.<br /><br />Drought & warmer winters appear to be. https://www.thereflector.com/stories/bark-beetles-attacking-drought-stressed-douglas-fir-trees-across-washington,37519tofucactushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03283239298802749152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-39151430473038648502021-08-19T12:51:59.673-07:002021-08-19T12:51:59.673-07:00That is exactly the type of reaction I often get f...That is exactly the type of reaction I often get from my FB Qanon high school classmates. :) <br />Ariehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03799624021461923964noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-85336340285936794352021-08-19T12:20:05.263-07:002021-08-19T12:20:05.263-07:00Sierra...I think I am still over my skis. Things ...Sierra...I think I am still over my skis. Things are not going well in CA. 50% of the electricity is from natural gas. Nuclear generation if half what it used to be. No growth in wind. Solar is only about 10% Electric rates are very high, powerlines are starting many fires, and outages are frequent. They are NOT on a good trajectoryCliff Mass Weather Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13948649423540350788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-54783269465218016802021-08-19T11:51:58.563-07:002021-08-19T11:51:58.563-07:00John K - it's called having the courage of you...John K - it's called having the courage of your convictions. You might try it sometime. Eric Blairhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09376653214948517679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-26416227952292144032021-08-19T10:32:20.616-07:002021-08-19T10:32:20.616-07:00Looks to me like your kWh/mile numbers are off. T...Looks to me like your kWh/mile numbers are off. The fueleconomy,gov page you cite is showing numbers in the 25-47 kWh/100 miles, or .25-.47 kWh / mile. Not 3kWh/mile. <br /> There are certainly challenges ahead for electric power generation and distribution as electric cars proliferate. But not as daunting as needing a 244% increase in generation capacity.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14241817047186128354noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-23786382606358528122021-08-19T05:33:56.540-07:002021-08-19T05:33:56.540-07:001) By reflecting away 30% of ISR the albedo, which...1) By reflecting away 30% of ISR the albedo, which would not exist w/o the atmosphere/GHGs, makes the earth cooler than it would be without that atmosphere like that reflective panel set behind the windshield. Remove the atmosphere/GHGs and the earth would become much like the Moon, a barren rock with a 0.1 albedo, 20% more kJ/h, hot^3 on the lit side, cold^3 on the dark. Nikolov, Kramm (U of AK) and UCLA Diviner mission all tacitly agree. <br /><br />2) the GHG up/down welling, “trapping”/”back” radiating/delaying/intercepting, 100 % efficient, perpetual warming loop requires "extra" energy which according to RGHE theory comes from <br /><br />3) the terrestrial surface radiating that "extra" upwelling energy as a LWIR , 1.0 emissivity, ideal black body which<br /><br />4) cannot happen because of the non-radiative, kinetic energy, heat transfer processes of the contiguous atmospheric molecules and as demonstrated by experiment, the gold standard of classical science: <br />https://principia-scientific.org/debunking-the-greenhouse-gas-theory-with-a-boiling-water-pot/<br /><br />1 or 2 or 3 + 4 = 0 Greenhouse Effect + 0 Greenhouse gas warming + 0 man caused climate change/global warming.<br /><br />Version 1.0 081921 <br />EnergyRealityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16642210105328616849noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-82061908098712699872021-08-18T20:37:29.571-07:002021-08-18T20:37:29.571-07:00Spot on as usual. I appreciate your view and clari...Spot on as usual. I appreciate your view and clarity.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15369860487073497006noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-48195000468127894122021-08-18T18:05:44.349-07:002021-08-18T18:05:44.349-07:00The scientific illiterates tout electric cars as p...The scientific illiterates tout electric cars as part of their answer but it's not going to happen. To power an all electric fleet of cars would require increasing the size of our electric generation, transmission, and distribution system by 244% which is physically and economically impossible. The numbers are readily available and the analysis is simple:<br /><br />Number of miles driven in United States (2019): 3.26E+12 Miles/yr<br />Data Source: <br /> https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/travel_monitoring/20dectvt/20dectvt.pdf<br /><br />Energy consumption for electric cars: 3 kWh/mile<br />Data Source: <br />https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/PowerSearch.do?action=noform&path=1&year1=2017&year2=2019&vtype=Electric&pageno=3&sortBy=Comb&tabView=0&rowLimit=10<br /><br />Electric energy required to power cars: 9.78E+12 kWh<br />Calculated: Miles Driven X Energy Consumption (kWh/Mile) <br /><br />Total electric energy production in United States (2020): 4.01E+12 kWh<br />Data Source: https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3<br /><br />Increase in electric Production to power electric cars: 244%<br />Calculated: Energy to cars/Total electricity production<br /><br />Electric cars will NEVER amount to anything and internal combustion engines are going to be with us forever. Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01224509351956440059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-12154339027276889662021-08-18T18:01:34.034-07:002021-08-18T18:01:34.034-07:00Colin, you are aware that there are perhaps millio...Colin, you are aware that there are perhaps millions or even 10s of millions of Americans who believe that Trump is still legally President? Or that our national response to Covid was/is...mixed at best? Even Afghanistan, which looked at pragmatically really could not have gone any other way than it did..is going to again be another political dumpster fire? We as a nation can't seem to compartmentalize the politics, emotion and the empirical as applied to a challenge so as to objectively address each facet. Thus, we really suck at solving problems greater than on an individual level. Heck we suck at even recognizing problems and believing that the issue is actually a problem, let alone how to proceed from there....<br /><br />In the USA, everything is politics...which really requires minimum effort. If my political party thus affiliated with says that the current stance toward tapioca pudding is that we hate tapioca pudding...well... I guess I hate tapioca pudding now. Something to that effect. No thought required. Even if you really DO LIKE tapioca pudding, its best to publicly discredit and lambast tapioca pudding at any given opportunity. Get a disposable lackey to do your clandestine grocery store runs to feed your tapioca pudding urges. Maybe even secretly prop up the tapioca pudding industry with some creative accounting and shell corps....but nothing that can lead back to direct involvement. Next election cycle, it will be butterscotch pudding that is taboo. Tapioca might be OK but don't publicly state you enjoy tapioca pudding for a while. No until the mindless hatred of butterscotch forces everyone to forget tapioca even exists. <br /><br />You want any effort to combat climate change to be effective? Solve the question of how to uncouple the politics from everything...and then we can talk. In the mean time, asking people to go live in a yurt off grid and raise alpacas in order to make artisan alpaca wool blankets to sell on Etsy might have a very low carbon footprint, but what are the other 6-7 billion people going to do who want cold beer, hot showers and their PS5 in 4k OLED? It can happen but its going to TAKE TIME and require some COMPROMISE. Yup, that word that might as well not even be in the dictionary, let alone our political lexicon. Especially when it comes to bridge technology. You think nuclear is icky? Well, it is...but we need it right now. Badly. We still need to burn those dinosaur bones too, until we can get whats comes next in place. <br /><br />2024 might see Trump or a Trump acolyte back in the White House. If such an event occurs, which there is a high probability, then expect more 1950s or 1980s problem solving. At the very least, if its not in the Constitution than its not the USG's problem. Which is..um...not wrong. If that can occur and constructive focus on climate change can still occur..then we are at where we need to be. Stop looking for government and the masses to solve problems. They won't. Its going to be the technocrats. Savvy? BAMCIShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05285865892838328830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-13690437945950250332021-08-18T15:10:03.817-07:002021-08-18T15:10:03.817-07:00Thank you, Cliff, for sharing your well-constructe...Thank you, Cliff, for sharing your well-constructed viewpoint. Down the road, could you please do another thorough blog like this one on exactly what we need to do to best manage our forests? Your reader support team could make a case to our legislators… Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16582437648345343277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-36547337728910309462021-08-18T14:32:19.465-07:002021-08-18T14:32:19.465-07:00If you want a sobering biomass factoid on "pr...If you want a sobering biomass factoid on "proportions", about 96% of mammalian biomass on the planet are either humans (36%) or livestock raised by humans (60%) with only 4% in the wild mammal category, many of which are rodents and similar species who are highly adaptable to human-created environments. Roughly 85% of wild mammals have been eliminated since the rise of humans.MAC in Bellinghamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00951163853106956325noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-24730144848822972062021-08-18T13:32:56.269-07:002021-08-18T13:32:56.269-07:00Great post! Thanks for the analysis!Great post! Thanks for the analysis!EuropeanManhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16989032380024260304noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-65767277979462500652021-08-18T13:19:12.317-07:002021-08-18T13:19:12.317-07:00This must be a parody account, right? Because this...This must be a parody account, right? Because this is one of the more hilarious posts I've seen yet on this blog. Eric Blairhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09376653214948517679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-35507815565326899602021-08-18T12:28:58.732-07:002021-08-18T12:28:58.732-07:00Yes, the reluctance around nuclear is as harmful a...Yes, the reluctance around nuclear is as harmful as the anti-vaxers are. Too much focus on the faults of 1950s design and technology. https://www.terrapower.com/a-solution-to-the-nuclear-waste-problem/<br />Ariehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03799624021461923964noreply@blogger.com