tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post5533651748234893623..comments2024-03-28T23:07:35.632-07:00Comments on Cliff Mass Weather Blog: Why does wind energy decline during heat waves?Cliff Mass Weather Bloghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13948649423540350788noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-58514115553136304962022-08-25T09:52:48.676-07:002022-08-25T09:52:48.676-07:00Solar, best way to go, low profile. Just need to ...Solar, best way to go, low profile. Just need to find the cheapest way to store it.Anselhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13835758313287462921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-66189164522019662212022-08-10T15:12:46.640-07:002022-08-10T15:12:46.640-07:00Despite the hype about breakthroughs (which is att...Despite the hype about breakthroughs (which is attracting a lot of money) there is no practical way to extract the heat generated by fusion without disrupting the magnetic fields or laser pulses that generate the reaction. Fusion can be obtained in the lab with an enormous input of energy but so far that's it.Weather Devoteehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07071334949599205140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-29512127186666050902022-08-04T22:38:35.911-07:002022-08-04T22:38:35.911-07:00It makes sense that warmer thinner air will have l...It makes sense that warmer thinner air will have less mass to push a windmill blade than cooler denser air, thus adding to the larger meteorological situation Cliff described. Thanks for chewing on this with me.Willy4castrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01030505141624800454noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-71021200966867669502022-08-04T16:08:44.969-07:002022-08-04T16:08:44.969-07:00Cliff, this is an interesting topic, and yes there...Cliff, this is an interesting topic, and yes there does tend to be a slacking of the local wind under both extreme heat and cold events. I agree the answers to this problem are multi-faceted, involving combinations of new transmission, more battery (or other) storage, offshore wind development, and (something you didn't emphasize much) solar development, which tends to be plentiful, at least during heat waves. Many of these are challenging but should be pursued vigorously. There is some low-hanging fruit: There is a 1.5-gigawatt (that's about 1/4 of a Grand Coulee Dam) coal-fired generation plant in Colstrip, Montana (eastern side of the state). that currently has a transmission line all the way to western WA and helps us considerably during high demand. It is going to be decommissioned, and wind and solar developers are chomping at the bit to build capacity along that transmission line to serve the PNW. This is far enough away that the wind would presumably de-correlate with the hottest temperatures in western WA, plus the solar even more so, and the transmission is already in place.Mark Stoelingahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11175412356326010762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-5361107195436734212022-08-04T09:09:42.722-07:002022-08-04T09:09:42.722-07:00Except that nuclear is not all it's cracked up...Except that nuclear is not all it's cracked up to be. Think Chernobyl and Love Island where a nuclear plant failed and contaminated the area around it, making that space inhabitable for many, many years. Then there is the spent rods from said plants that must be dealt with and remain actively radioactive for a very, very long time, like 100's of years. <br /><br />Fusion may be the answer but in the meantime, gotta use what technology we have at out disposal today to power the nation as efficiently as we can, and diversify as well the power sources at our disposal. Personally, I don't see any one solution be the answer, but several sources being the way to go in the long run, while reducing the polluting resources (gas and coal) needs to power the grid. ciddyguyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11996157997591280877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-68738069619720576702022-08-04T09:04:17.350-07:002022-08-04T09:04:17.350-07:00There is no efficient storage at this time There is no efficient storage at this time Carolinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02739575454791927332noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-3584533332964805812022-08-03T21:53:40.350-07:002022-08-03T21:53:40.350-07:00Must have hit a wrong key.
I'll repeat and if ...Must have hit a wrong key.<br />I'll repeat and if a double, sorry.<br />Have a look here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betz's_lawJohn F. Hultquisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02405080162099143163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-30525520974082864182022-08-03T21:51:56.463-07:002022-08-03T21:51:56.463-07:00Start with: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betz'...Start with: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betz's_lawJohn F. Hultquisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02405080162099143163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-16315988181729306172022-08-03T19:45:21.395-07:002022-08-03T19:45:21.395-07:00Always interesting to see the "environmentali...Always interesting to see the "environmentalists" who couldn't care less about the West.Placeholderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02967627809480888708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-75147452447679130622022-08-03T19:30:16.665-07:002022-08-03T19:30:16.665-07:00The other currently available technology is energy...The other currently available technology is energy storage--you store the energy from wind when it generates more than the demand and then when demand is high and wind is low, you pull power from the batteries. These type of hybrid energy projects are already being built worldwide and battery research and technology is making them more economical. Of course fusion will be the real answer but until then, we must use current technology to reduce our reliance on fossil fuels. No need to wait!Kirkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13526375160785049817noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-53036708480337721672022-08-03T19:26:05.947-07:002022-08-03T19:26:05.947-07:00Wind power is directly related to air density; col...Wind power is directly related to air density; colder air is more dense and 'pushes' the turbine with greater mass. A wind turbine's power curve generates more power in colder weather than at higher air temperatures at the same wind speed because air density is inversely proportional to temperature. The formula for power is: <br />P=1/2 * rho*A*v cubed<br />Power = Watts<br />ρ (rho, a Greek letter) = density of the air in kg/m 3<br />A = cross-sectional area of the wind in m 2<br />v = velocity of the wind in m/sKirkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13526375160785049817noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-90772260528484893322022-08-03T17:08:32.171-07:002022-08-03T17:08:32.171-07:00Let's ask the question, is real progress being...Let's ask the question, is real progress being made on building a practical fusion power reactor, one that can be used in generating commercial quantities of electricity? <br /><br />Well, instead of always being fifty years away, scientists and engineers have now made enough progress so that it is always just <b>fifteen</b> years away. <br /> <br />With some tens of billions of dollars more of further investment, fusion might always be just <b>ten</b> years away. <br /><br />And with more billions of dollars of investment, fusion might always be just <b>five</b> years away.<br /><br />And with yet more billions of dollars of investment .....Betah Blocherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05830083338356921513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-46124417278635562132022-08-03T17:04:50.713-07:002022-08-03T17:04:50.713-07:00People love those eyesores until NIMBY comes in to...People love those eyesores until NIMBY comes in to play. I'm with John, let's build lots of safe, clean nuclear energy and take down the wind turbines.Dion Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05413543353353174264noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-35442268971064536662022-08-03T17:03:28.510-07:002022-08-03T17:03:28.510-07:00So can you explain what exactly 1000s of acres of ...So can you explain what exactly 1000s of acres of corn is doing to the natural landscape? The natural sage brush is perfectly intact all around these green energy producing turbines.Quentinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16214518565262832146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-53558981977019879742022-08-03T16:13:08.707-07:002022-08-03T16:13:08.707-07:00By natural landscape, you mean ugly alfalfa farms ...By natural landscape, you mean ugly alfalfa farms and cow feed lots?someone elsehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12764003901093679030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-40390428063788571052022-08-03T14:27:16.688-07:002022-08-03T14:27:16.688-07:00I would guess that power generation varies directl...I would guess that power generation varies directly with wind momentum, not speed. Momentum = mass * velocity, so the decreasing density of hot air would be accounted for in the lower momentum imparted by a hot wind than a cold wind for the same wind velocity.herrbrahmshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08308204686231352936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-76151394256399498942022-08-03T12:06:51.900-07:002022-08-03T12:06:51.900-07:00I have been wondering about why multiple somewhat ...I have been wondering about why multiple somewhat unusual heatwaves have been occurring at the same time, globally:<br /><br />https://www.startribune.com/what-is-causing-simultaneous-heat-waves/600195189/ <br /><br />"What Is Causing Simultaneous Heat Waves?<br />By Paul Douglas<br /><br />Europe's recent heat wave shattered records, and now the Pacific Northwest is experiencing one of the hottest weeks in recorded history. Seattle saw 6 straight days of 90+ for the first time ever. Portland reported 7 straight days of 95+ for the first time ever.<br /><br />Scientists increasingly believe these global heat waves maybe linked. Jet stream steering winds have experienced unusual contortions known as a "wave number 7 pattern", with 7 bulges of hot air penetrating unusually far north, simultaneously. This may be another symptom of a warming world."<br /><br />thoughts?BATTLEFINCHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09960023649219767737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-81498525595150588672022-08-03T10:10:32.494-07:002022-08-03T10:10:32.494-07:00No, they aren't. Love seeing them!No, they aren't. Love seeing them! Joshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09534556179844509713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-47164800262786328412022-08-03T09:52:50.841-07:002022-08-03T09:52:50.841-07:00John... is we can get nuclear right....and particu...John... is we can get nuclear right....and particularly if we can get fusion to work...we can consider dumping wind turbines completely!....sounds good to me..cliffCliff Mass Weather Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13948649423540350788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-30433526267273052452022-08-03T09:34:13.590-07:002022-08-03T09:34:13.590-07:00That chart from BPA is awesome! I found that chart...That chart from BPA is awesome! I found that chart and all the historical data on their site. Has anyone seen a similar live/detailed dataset for PSE? https://transmission.bpa.gov/Business/Operations/Wind/baltwg.aspxBen Martenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02199417641264536707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-6503680573457510832022-08-03T08:40:26.851-07:002022-08-03T08:40:26.851-07:00How does air density factor into the turbine's...How does air density factor into the turbine's efficiency or is the lower density's impact negligible? Willy4castrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01030505141624800454noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-14322408518967027772022-08-03T07:53:31.240-07:002022-08-03T07:53:31.240-07:00It sounds as though you are suggesting two substan...It sounds as though you are suggesting two substantial generating systems. I favor nuclear, without the wind.<br />To produce a major decarbonization (<CO2) by 2050, the country needs to build, commission, and bring on-line the equivalent of 2 Columbia Generating Stations [1,207 megawatts] each day. <br />This and other ideas are presented here:<br />https://wattsupwiththat.com/2021/01/27/bright-green-impossibilities/<br />John F. Hultquisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02405080162099143163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-32663291082791882382022-08-03T06:55:13.160-07:002022-08-03T06:55:13.160-07:00Not to mention.. these turbines are a blight on th...Not to mention.. these turbines are a blight on the land. They deface 100's of square miles of beautiful natural landscape. I'd like to see them taken down in my lifetime, but I don't have much hope.John K.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03575682658318674003noreply@blogger.com