tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post7163440433916718338..comments2024-03-28T03:08:44.068-07:00Comments on Cliff Mass Weather Blog: The Seattle Parks Department Threatens To Reduce Service Due to COVID: Where is the Science?Cliff Mass Weather Bloghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13948649423540350788noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-80954997114077306002021-04-29T15:37:31.285-07:002021-04-29T15:37:31.285-07:00At it again, after the CDC statement on outdoor ma...At it again, after the CDC statement on outdoor masking nonetheless. - "According to SDOT, Seattle Parks and Recreation (SPR) “observed crowding and mask-noncompliance at Golden Gardens Park during the recent warm, sunny weekend, and are considering closing the parking lots and reopening Golden Gardens Dr NW to people walking,” SDOT shared in a press release about Keep Moving Streets. “Regular communication between SDOT and SPR will determine whether to move forward with this Keep Moving Street.”Clintonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11525725358967677228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-69533506321457701452021-04-21T20:40:56.664-07:002021-04-21T20:40:56.664-07:00What I've read is that it just takes longer th...What I've read is that it just takes longer than with UV-C, although you always have to keep in mind that reported times are just statistical averages. I can't remember the times I read--somewhere in the few minutes to an hour range. Also its complicated by what density of virons you start with and what the sensitivity of the detector is, whether the lab experiment really simulates actual conditions etc. If I remember right, early on there was a paper published that gave times the virus lasted on surfaces, but in retrospect, I think they started with larger than realistically likely amounts of virus. Also the tests are hard to do because you can't do PCR or antibody tests--they don't tell if the virus in intact or not--you have to check for functional virus--ie you try to infect a cell culture with it.<br /><br />I'm partway thru an online virology class, and so far one of my main takeaways is that most viruses have their RNA surrounded by repeating units of the nucelocapsid (often just called N) protein, and the units are stuck together by essentially electrostatic cling. The SARS-CoV2 N proteins clings tighter than flu viruses (what I read is that with flu, the N experiences significant breakup at 80-85F, but SARS-Cov2 is more like 140F). The interesting thing is that those N proteins have to dis-associate when the virus enters the cell in order to reveal the RNA, so they can only cling so tight. Hence they're mostly all vulnerable to breaking apart heat, energy absorbed from UV etc, or simply by coming in contact with other highly charged molecules (I imagine this a bit like a ball of sticky notes bouncing around on against other sticky surfaces). Even without UV, it seems that the virons all eventually fall apart in the 10s of hours time frame--depending on what they're exposed to, of course.<br /><br />My take is that the effect of dilution air outdoors is so great that the UV aspect over short time periods isn't all that relevant. The relevance of UV is that functional virus doesn't hang around outdoors over longer (hours+) time periods.<br /><br />There is a ton of good virus info here: https://www.virology.ws/virology-101/ Or you can find it yourself: search for "vincent racaniello virology". He teaches at Columbia. He also produces a podcast "this week in virology".<br /><br />Anyhow, I'm no expert. This is just my understanding due to a summer's worth of reading. Bob Scheulenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02277373818101496547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-7441511920171586022021-04-21T08:36:52.340-07:002021-04-21T08:36:52.340-07:00This was also a well reasoned argument along the s...This was also a well reasoned argument along the same lines-<br />https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/04/are-outdoor-mask-mandates-still-necessary/618626/?utm_source=pocket-newtabSpiverinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10664355268678531144noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-57317919187701366652021-04-20T12:48:41.880-07:002021-04-20T12:48:41.880-07:00Is it true COVID is inactivated by UV light from t...Is it true COVID is inactivated by UV light from the sun? My understanding is that light in the UV-C range is the most germicidal but is almost entirely absorbed by the ozone. UV-B is somewhat effective and more gets through, but I thought not enough passes the ozone to really inactivate COVID.Rasalhaguehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05314678868282705713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-22469806238695680112021-04-20T11:50:02.003-07:002021-04-20T11:50:02.003-07:00Seattle is radically dyfunctional. So glad we got ...Seattle is radically dyfunctional. So glad we got out. Won't say where we went in WA State because the last thing we need is more thumb-sucking "progressives" out here. By the way, our property taxes fell by two-thirds, and there have been no riots here. Have fun downtown, kids! Placeholderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02967627809480888708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-53228876343916361832021-04-20T08:28:33.493-07:002021-04-20T08:28:33.493-07:00The point is pretty clearly to deter people from h...The point is pretty clearly to deter people from having parties with their friends at parks. Seems very reasonable. You think an anti-masker is "intimidated" by these signs? Give me a break. Also, at best 50% of adults have received one dose. More like 30% are fully vaccinated.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09588146921278232854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-10577925022333097092021-04-19T05:48:50.220-07:002021-04-19T05:48:50.220-07:00I refuse to wear a mask if I am outside and can ma...I refuse to wear a mask if I am outside and can maintain 6 foot separation. If I am working out or climbing a steep high altitude trail I need all the oxygen I can get the mask is too much of a hinderance. I scolded by a ranger in Olympic National Park this weekend for not wearing a mask, this made me pretty angry because not only was I way more than 6 feet away from other people but I'm vaccinated. Thank you so much Cliff Mass for being one of the few voices of reason in these paranoid times. I used to think highly of the park service but after all these rules I'm thinking alot less of the park service and next time they want to raise taxes or expand the park the vote might not go so well.Storm1https://www.blogger.com/profile/15032533387012414371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-51925316895838716102021-04-18T18:35:48.960-07:002021-04-18T18:35:48.960-07:00Cliff, in a previous blog "Is outside air COV...Cliff, in a previous blog "Is outside air COVID safe" you wrote "First, large virus-containing droplets tend to fall out close to the infected (that is why there is a six-foot "rule" for separation)." At first, I thought there would be a contradiction with this blog, but now I see there isn't. The bigger heavier droplets fall to the ground while the smaller aerosol particles are dispersed by the wind and killed by UV radiation.EuropeanManhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16989032380024260304noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-4772885120219121692021-04-18T14:11:38.397-07:002021-04-18T14:11:38.397-07:00Please, stop terrifying our kids! The risk of infe...Please, stop terrifying our kids! The risk of infection from kid to kid and from kid to adult is very low. Children are forced into masks at the playground while 20 year olds nearby play sports or hang out next to each other with no masks, which is fine with me. But then, let kids play and interact with each other without having to cover their smiles!EuropeanManhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16989032380024260304noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-15068423198596940852021-04-18T09:36:05.669-07:002021-04-18T09:36:05.669-07:00So very well stated!! Thank you again for combini...So very well stated!! Thank you again for combining sound science and common sense in stating your case! 👏👍Weatherfreakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01448044230017714312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-5571617580628451322021-04-17T18:53:52.707-07:002021-04-17T18:53:52.707-07:00I subscribe to Sean Carroll's podcast Mindscap...I subscribe to Sean Carroll's podcast Mindscape. Recently he had Zeynep Tufekci(April 5) on and she discussed the pandemic. What Mass is trying to tell us is in the podcast. Start at 50 minutes into the podcast. She explains where and how the WHO got it wrong about "droplets". Earlier in the podcast she tells how the academics failed to react. The WHO/CDCE, government, and large universities failed. Enjoy.Ellenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03419768614952847537noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-64279038056239827042021-04-17T18:39:42.638-07:002021-04-17T18:39:42.638-07:00They're idiots!They're idiots!Mike Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06327447746018294303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-936202518771987622021-04-17T16:54:37.644-07:002021-04-17T16:54:37.644-07:00The science, per the CDC, about people living unho...The science, per the CDC, about people living unhoused is that they are safer in individual spaces like tents than in congregate shelters. I imagine there are people who would prefer not to be reminded that this city has too large a homeless population and I would HOPE it is possible for everyone to enjoy park amenities even if there are tents nearbyRantWomanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17611656459134372290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-87923368079446676392021-04-17T15:17:14.311-07:002021-04-17T15:17:14.311-07:00Here's a good wrap-up of the current status of...Here's a good wrap-up of the current status of aerosols research, centering around a paper/meta-analysis posted to The Lancet: https://kottke.org/21/04/case-closed-sars-cov-2-spreads-primarily-by-aerosolsJason Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10709535646519310028noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-16991502041042114532021-04-17T14:57:29.886-07:002021-04-17T14:57:29.886-07:00Let's take a moment and laud King County for t...Let's take a moment and laud King County for taking a reasonable approach and even opening bathrooms on April 1st (really they did!). In our wooded enclave of private forestland well-masked newcomings are showing up in droves and gasping in panic as when they see unleashed dogs on private land.Ariehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03799624021461923964noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-38208179210598799262021-04-17T14:10:47.065-07:002021-04-17T14:10:47.065-07:00Another fail by a city that has had too many. Another fail by a city that has had too many. diforbeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06200935663817428636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-27420363250237373652021-04-17T13:52:46.307-07:002021-04-17T13:52:46.307-07:00Gov. Inslee conducted a press conference last Thur...Gov. Inslee conducted a press conference last Thursday in front of a large banner that said "take it outside." I guess Seattle Parks didn't get the memo.ginnavillehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07415162657447575893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7478606652950905956.post-75568749677688761232021-04-17T13:02:42.026-07:002021-04-17T13:02:42.026-07:00Not surprising, look at what Ontario is doing, Sea...Not surprising, look at what Ontario is doing, Seattle Parks must be envious. The irony is, they say go get a vaccine, the science shows it works. But then completely dismiss science that shows transmission outside is negligible. So which is it? Excuse me for not being completely trusting of governing bodies.Trevorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09047064556653081833noreply@blogger.com