Thursday, August 13, 2020

My Firing at KNKX

It is time for me to speak about my firing from KNKX and I will reveal much that is not known publicly about the station, its leadership, and the events that have occurred. This is a particularly sad task for me, considering that I played an important role in saving the station a few years ago and have worked hard for its success. 


This is a long post, so let me give you a quick overview of the key points I will cover:

1.  The leaders of KNKX justified my firing based upon my August 5th blog post that criticized violent individuals in downtown Seattle, criticized the City Council, supported Chief Best, and noted some similarities to what happened in Germany in the 1930s.
2.  The leaders of KNKX terminated me the next day without speaking to me before they made the decision.  They also did not discuss the matter with the KNKX Advisory Council.
3.  KNKX put out a statement that was factually untrue and easily can be proven false.
4.  Activist groups have been trying to get me dismissed from KNKX for over a year because they are unhappy with my science-based approach to climate change.
5.  KNKX did not oppose my advocacy when I supported progressive viewpoints, but was uncomfortable with my moderate stances.
6.  KNKX  management is beholden to and attempts to please left-leaning activist donors.
7.  That NPR is full of examples of calling Republicans and police Nazis and brownshirts, but if someone suggests the violent left have evinced Fascist behavior, that is reason for termination.

The Details

Last week I wrote a blog post--Seattle, A City in Fear Can Be Restored--criticizing violent individuals who have brought repeated destruction to downtown Seattle and attacked and injured numerous people (including reporters and dozens of police officers).  I also criticized the irresponsible and reckless actions of members of the Seattle City Council, who allowed the violence to continue, tried to cripple and defund the Seattle Police Department, and who have persecuted Chief Carmen Best.

The next day I received a call from KNKX station manager Joey Cohn and program manager Matt Martinez, saying that I was being ejected from the station because of my blog post.  They were not open to discussion on the matter; I was off the air and my weather segment, one of the most popular segments on the station, was discontinued immediately.

Their reason for my expulsion, provided in a statement released by the station, was both false and misleading.  For example, it stated that my blog “draws distorted, offensive parallels between protesters and Nazi Brownshirts”  



This is totally false. I NEVER suggested that peaceful protestors are like brownshirts, I was ONLY talking about violent individuals. 

Just to be completely clear I am a strong supporter of peaceful protests and assemblies.  It is an essential aspect of our democracy and protected in the U.S. Constitution.  Peaceful protests have played a critical role in many positive social movements, such as woman suffrage, ending the Vietnam war, and in promoting civil rights.  I have participated in peaceful protests myself.  But violence—destroying business and hurting people—is a different story.   It is not only illegal, and destructive, but it undermines civil society and democracy, and usually hurts the least advantaged among us the most.  That is what I was speaking out against.

                                         Supported in Blog                  Criticized in Blog

I made it clear to both Joey Cohn and Matt Martinez on the call that my remarks were limited to violent individuals and they still chose to send out the deceptive statement.  For the leadership of a major media group to do so is extraordinarily concerning and disappointing.

Ironically, the first sentence of their statement proclaims that the station has an “aim to present an array of voices that reflect our region.”  Clearly, they did not think my voice against violence was one of the “array of voices” that should be presented.

Furthermore, their statement suggested my blog was “inaccurate” and “misleading”—but never backs that up with any evidence.  There is no evidence.  My blog was both accurate and highly reasoned, and I challenge them to provide a single example to the contrary.

My sources inside KNKX tell me that station management went into panic mode after a number of activist folks emailed to complain about my blog.  They were desperate to get out a statement immediately that kicked me off the station in order to get the online mob off their back.  Putting out a deceptive, hurtful statement was OK if it did the job.

Backstory and Influence of Activists/Contributors

But as in any controversy, there is a backstory, and now I am going to reveal some of it to you, since public radio is, well, public.

A collection of activist folks has been gunning for me for a long time and have energetically tried to get me kicked off KNKX.   The reason:  the  discussions of climate and climate change in my blog.   No, we are NOT talking about what I said on air, where I stick to weather and the content was controlled completely by the station.  They objected to what I said in my outside blog about climate change.

Now I have probably written more papers and done more research on Northwest weather and climate than any other individual.  I know the literature. I attend the seminars. I wrote on book on NW weather and climate. I have spent a lifetime learning about it.  But a bunch of climate activists, such as groups like 350.org decided they knew better. They were particularly unhappy when I exposed some of the hype and exaggeration promulgated by the activist crowd (e.g., that climate change is a short-term existential threat to mankind). There were also some wealthy, activist KNKX donors that were unhappy with my blog.   These climate activists demanded that I talk about "existential climate threats" on KNKX and stop my climate fact checking on my blog.   I was a threat to them:  knowledgeable, credible, and with access to the media.  And they wanted that to end.

Well, all this came to a head this year, when Seattle350.org put out a petition with the aim of getting me removed from KNKX (see below).  



I offered to come to a 350.org meeting to talk about the science with them, but they refused.  I asked them to specify what I got wrong, they could not.  But the station management was afraid of the 350.org mob and KNKX donor sympathizes, and decided to spend a great deal of money in getting me “evaluated.”   Unbelievable.

In March 2020, Joey Cohn and Matt Martinez hired the recently retired national NPR ombudsperson, Elizabeth Jensen, to do the evaluation.  And then they also arranged for an evaluation of my science.  Contrary to any good sense, they found a local aerosol expert who was an active member of 350.org to do the science evaluation.  I complained that this was grossly unfair, but Joey and Matt were unmoved.

Well, the good news is that their report showed that my science was accurate and that my segment with Bellamy Pailthorp was totally appropriate (read the report here: https://www.knkx.org/post/knkx-public-editor-report-science-politics-and-weather-cliff-mass)  In short, a total waste of KNKX listener contributions.

And it is worse than that. After the report was released, KNKX management required me to attend a public zoom session, where some of the wealthy donors (and they made sure everyone knew that they gave money to the station) pummeled me with the most hurtful, unfounded attacks on my character and science.  

But the fact that station management spent a large amount of money (from donations, of course) and personnel time on placating uninformed activists was a very bad sign….one that was going to reveal itself when I posted on August 5th about Seattle and violence.

This was not the only incident of this kind that illustrates a serious bias at KNKX.  Two years ago I wrote some blog posts criticizing I-1631, which called for a carbon tax that would be distributed to activist groups.  I felt it was terribly regressive and hurt low-income groups preferentially.  Some of the activist KNKX contributors were unhappy about my stance and complained to the station (some even wanted me ejected right there).  Of importance, I was a strong supporter of I-732, which was a revenue-neutral carbon tax defeated two years earlier.  Joey Cohn took me out to lunch and had a “talk” with me.  He told me some of the contributors were upset and required that I talk to him before I publicly supported an initiative again.  I asked him why he was not concerned about and never mentioned my support of I-732 (which was approved by some in the activist community).  He smiled at me.  The answer was clear:  as long as I supported “progressive” initiatives things were fine.  When I publicly opposed something the progressives liked, I needed to rethink my advocacy.

All of this revealed to me an Achilles heel of public radio.  Stations depend on contributions, and rich, activist contributors have enormous power on station management. They get appointed to station management boards.  They have access to station managers. Joey Cohn and Matt Martinez feel encumbered to please and mollify them.  And that has a serious, and deleterious impact on what one hears on the radio station.

Joey Cohn and Matt Martinez threw away the foundational values of KNKX.  Why?  Because the station was saved to protect diversity of viewpoints in the region and they acted to reduce the exposure of their listeners to a different viewpoint that was different from their activist donors.

Hypocrisy
The key aspect of my blog post that KNKX management claim to be upset about is my paragraphs providing a reasoned and careful comparison between what happened in 1930s Germany and in present-day Seattle. They claimed my blog post “draws distorted, offensive parallels” to what happened in Nazi Germany.  I have expanded on my reasoning below, which I will let each of you evaluate on your own. 

But don’t trust me.  I have had a number of other individuals, both Jewish and non-Jewish, tell me the same thing (see example below)—what has happened in Seattle has many parallels in the 1930s. I talked to a local Rabbi that concurred, and I spoke to a leader in a local Jewish advocacy group who told me that the blog was not offensive or problematic.  I would be happy to connect KNKX leadership with these local Jewish leaders.

 The great irony here and the sign of total hypocrisy on the part of KNKX management is that NPR is constantly providing folks a platform to call Trump, police, or Republicans fascists, Nazis or brownshirts.  You want proof? Here is an NPR story in which Rick Steves calls Trump a fascist.



Or this one:

I could provide a dozen more.  There are comparisons with fascists all the time on NPR, but references are almost always about Trump administration officials or police.  But when I noted actions reminiscent of the 1930s done by those supported on the left, I am given the boot from the station.  Even with detailed documentation of my contentions and the support of others in the Jewish community.

There is a word for this. Hypocrisy.

Brownshirts and Kristallnacht

Now that you understand a bit about the serious issues at KNKX (and there are more that I could have included), let’s get to the brownshirt/Kristallnacht issue.   As made clear above, my concerns were NOT about peaceful protestors but violent types.  But a number of the activists deliberately misrepresented what was clear in the blog, and they accused me of calling peaceful protestors NazisThis is absolutely false.  Some even called me an anti-Semite, which is kind of ridiculous since I am Jewish. 

Ironically, a number of the social activists attacking Seattle police were very liberal in their use of brownshirts and Nazis.  But a Jewish individual whose family suffered in Europe could not do so.  Unbelievable.



So why did they home in on my reference to brownshirts and the like?  Because they were desperate to attack a blog post that they knew undercut their viewpoints, particularly about police violence in Seattle against “peaceful” righteous protestors.   Pretty cynical stuff.

In my blog, I noted some similarities of what happened here in Seattle and in Nazi Germany.  I did not say it was the same in magnitude or degree.  But that there were common elements that were chilling….and particularly so to a Jewish individual.  Consider:

1.      On Kristallnacht, violent individuals (brownshirts and others) had a target (Jewish businesses and homes) to which they caused huge damage, injuries, and loss of life. They were out to intimidate.  The violence was not done by the government, which looked the other way as it happened.  Many windows were broken and extensive glass was on the ground (that is why it was called Kristallnacht, night of broken glass).

In Seattle, there were also massive amounts of broken windows, violent individuals were pillaging and damaging targeted groups they felt were unrighteous (e.g., Amazon, Chase, Starbuck).  Some Jewish business were clearly targeted (e.g., Uncle Ikes, Samuel Jewelers)



Jewish businesses like Uncle Ikes were deliberately targeting during the Seattle riots

2.     Hurtful graffiti was applied in Kristallnacht, as it was in Seattle.  Some of the Seattle graffiti was anti-Israel.

3.      The brownshirts got the nod or indifference by the German government.  In Seattle, a number of government officials and representatives downplayed the violence, suggesting it was a” summer of love”, or actively attacked the police when they tried to restore order.  One city councilmember dressed her infant child in an antifa outfit.

Jewish Americans have a deep memory of what has happened during the past centuries.  When thuggish violent groups target those they don’t agree with, with the government not intervening to stop the violence, vulnerable groups (like the Jewish community) tend to get hurt.  We feel highly vulnerable.  Jewish Americans understand the value of American democracy, which protects and celebrates different viewpoints and traditions.  The antifa “brownshirts” are the antithesis of democratic values and respect for differing viewpoints. That is a critical point.

Chief Carmen Best

Carmen Best is the latest moderate who cared deeply about this city and been pushed out. In both of our cases, the activist left saw us in their way, representing values of tolerance, moderation, and thoughtful examination of the facts.  They wanted us gone and, quite honestly, they have been quite successful in the short term, in my case because of the weak management of KNKX.  It is not an accident that the blog that got me fired from KNKX was the one in which I criticized the City Council and strongly supported Chief Best.


So What Should You Do?

KNKX is in trouble and what happened to me is clear example of the power of special interest groups on a public radio station.  Importantly, KNKX management did not care about KNKX listeners when they made their politically motivated decision.  They cut one of the most popular segments on the station without even talking to the KNKX advisory council or polling KNKX listeners—a sharp contrast to their close attention to listeners thoughts during the first years.  Management of public radio station must reflect the interested and values of the public, not a limited group of activists.  In fact, the comments on their web site ran strongly against the firing.  And I have gotten roughly 450 emails from listeners who were outraged with how KNKX handled the situation.

KNKX has become the poster child of the "cancel culture" and, quite honestly, it is not a good look.

 If you agree with me, please contact KNKX (see emails of management below) and ask that they reconsider their approach.  And if you are a contributor to KNKX, you might withhold your contribution until the station takes a different course.   Email Seattle City Council members about your concerns about their actions regarding Chief Best and the Seattle Police Department.

Finally, let me note that starting this Friday at 9 AM, I will provide an up-to-date forecast and weather analysis that you can view on my blog. I have an even better weather podcast in the works. Stay tuned!

KNKX Management:

Station Manager: Joey Cohn, jcohn@knkx.org
Program Director: Matt Martinez,  mmartinez@knkx.org
Chair of KNKX Board, Claire Grace, send to info@knkx.org

126 comments:

  1. As someone who has far left anti fascist views, I find this disturbing. I hope my fellow leftists will see that their actions have unintended consequences, particularly towards the Jewish community (which I would hope they are concerned about if they care about racism and its lasting effects.)
    Science and discussion should always be guiding the left, as it is the antithesis of what the right does.
    Thank you for your blog posts and educational weather and climate discussion.
    I've never seen your climate posts to be climate denialist in any way and help to keep discussion on how to deal with the existential threat of climate change on track.

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    1. Wow,...."climate denialist"... !
      Well, there are thousands of people who also understand that "the existential threat of climate change" is on the wrong "track".

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    2. 'Far left antifascist views'?
      No such animal.
      You can't have far left views without fascism to implement them.

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    3. Maybe you need to reconsider your "far left" position. The left has become a nexis for totalitarianism and it is now bent on destroying alternative voices -- essential for free thought -- there are many examples similar to this one. I believe their goal is to destroy the country. Very frightening.

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    4. Hello,Any student of history can tell you that facism is a socialistic society.Those antifa people,are actually supporting facism,the tactics are facist,the attitude is facist,but they are in denial. Luckily most people think this small group is nuts,and nobody wants to be near them,they are pariahs,like the progressice freaks that support them. unless massive starvation hits,these progressive are farting into the wind.

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  2. Thank you for posting this detailed defense Cliff. Both you and Chief Best were treated unfairly and those of us who agree with you must speak out and push back. This can include holding back contributions and other support for KNKX.

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  3. I've lived all over the country and have always donated to my local NPR stations. KOUW and KNKX are the only public stations I have ever refused to donate to because of this very blatant pandering.

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  4. Once upon a time, KRAB-FM in Seattle went out of its way to find and present diverse
    viewpoints---that was the station's raison-d'etre, now apparently deeply out of date. [Although most of our commentators were left-wing, one of our right-wingers turned out, by lucky happenstance, also to be an eclectic jazz presenter.] After 22 years on the air, KRAB collapsed for lack of well-heeled donors. KRAB was founded, along with many other alternative, free-form FM stations, by Lorenzo Milam. On July 19, Lorenzo died in his home in Puerto Escondido, Mexico. See: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/07/business/media/lorenzo-milam-dead.html

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  5. A sign of the times. You have written a concise report on what happened. You will be greatly missed. Now, something I have a hard time recently practicing: Don't take it personally. But, forge ahead with your principles, integrity and passion. You will find bigger and better opportunities. I am grateful for the info you put out.

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  6. Hi Cliff, I'm so sorry this has happened to you, I hope you know I've been a fan of yours for the 20+ years we've known each other. You're moderate, science-based approach, not just to our field but to our culture,has always appealed to me. Keep it up, don't let the b*%#@*$s get you down! If you're going to fly solo to keep your forecasts going, I came across a full page ad in The Economist this week for a new product called "ATEM Mini" from a company called Black Magic Design. It's an odd name but looks like a cool idea. It's a DIY TV studio and video production platform that sells for a few $100. Looking at the ad I'm sure it's an outgrowth of the work from home, school at home situation we find ourselves in. Why not do your own TV broadcast?! I'd sign up for it!. All the best, Lin Lindsey

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  7. I can substantively refute your "Kristalnacht" analogy, if you dare to go there.

    But I suspect you are your usual cancel culture when it comes to peer review Cliff.

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    Replies
    1. We all would like to see it. His platform. Your ability to comment.please use this platform

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    2. IT should be noted that Canada has in fact instituted their own peculiar version of "cancel culture," which has found citizens there harassing any US citizens holding license plates on their cars, even though many are of dual citizenship. Brownshirts, indeed.

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    3. Bruce Kay, I disregard your post as simple trollish taunting.

      Why don't you submit a grown-up post where you actually present your evidence or refutation for us all yo see, instead of just alluding to the fact that it exists.

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    4. And the comparison to "cancel culture is WHAT"?

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    5. Well, Bruce? Out with it, right here in this comment section. To begin with, there are two "L" in Kristallnacht (the Night of Broken Glass).

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    6. FYI - the commenter in question previously used the term "climate denier" when smearing anyone disagreeing with his jeremiad regarding climate issues. When I challenged him on using Holocaust language that should only be reserved for the Holocaust's victims themselves, he doubled down and never recanted his earlier denigration.

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    7. I have also noted a comparison of the lawless violence not only in Seattle but also in Portland, etc and now Kenosha. The death throes of the Weimar Republic also featured massive amounts of created money, resulting in runaway inflation (as a child I collected stamps, and recall German stamps in denominations of tens of millions of Marks. Eerie feeling right now.

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  8. Thank you Cliff for standing up against the far left cancel culture machine!! Don't EVER bow to them! You made a very reasonable and well thought out argument for your blog post and subsequent canceling of your segment. Those that love freedom, the rule of law and the the City of Seattle stand with you!!

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  9. I have contacted KNKX and withdrawn support. Done the same with KUOW and asked them to approach you.

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  10. sad that a moderate is too far to the right especially when these people claim to be open and diverse a pebble a stone a boulder a mountain are all pieces of rock but there is only one kind of peaceful protest peaceful

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  11. Cliff,

    Thanks so much for your well written and thoughtful response to your being let go from KNKX. I have rescinded my membership. I have always enjoyed your insight, intellect and opinion on matters of weather, climate and current events. My son whom is a sophomore at the UW will be taking your weather class, unfortunately online, this fall. I'm from the class of '88.. Thanks for your continued wise counsel and please do not back down.

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  12. I measured a temperature of 47F this morning at my location in NW Bellingham. This is the lowest temperature of the month so far and the lowest temperature I've measured since 6/5.

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    1. Talking about the weather?! It has been a bit Cold and we wonder why, and soon it might get quite hot, and we wonder why. And maybe some of us wonder why we wonder why, but alas, I for one am hoping gives a nice explanation soon of the chill last night and impending heat!

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  13. Cliff:

    Thank you for your reasoned thoughts on this blow now and previously. What has happened
    to you is wrong and and example of the stiffling nature of politics in America. I hope some good comes out of this.

    When I heard you were fired, I wrote to the knkx station manager:

    Hi John.

    I realize that we are living in controversial and divisive times.

    All the same, I wanted to voice my concern and displeasure for the recent retaliatory actions taken against your employee Cliff Mass.

    I believe that Mass's blog post was a reasonable summary of the current situation in Seattle. Moreover, I believe that employees should have the latitude to express themselves both in their capacity while employed and especially in their personal space and that it is unreasonable, unwarranted and chilling that NPR is taking the retaliatory actions that it has.

    The provocative part of Mass's posting was a comparison of the current state in Seattle to Kristallnacht. While I understand why this statement is controversial, provocative, and perhaps unfounded, I also don't believe such a comparison to be unreasonable, offensive or hateful. Throughout the rest of Mass's piece, I believe that he is expressing genuine concern and trying to help a city that is hurting.

    I have no doubt that you have received many pieces of unsolicited feedback from both sides on this issue. Our city and nation are divided as they have perhaps never been. But America, in my opinion, should be an open and tolerant place. We work best when we allow all sides of a topic to have a voice, we work best when there is room to allow some controversial narratives. We work best when employees feel the freedom to speak their mind. I have no doubt that Mass was expressing his genuine reaction and views on how to help Seattle.

    Therefore I plead with KNKX, and NPR to revisit this situation and undo the retaliatory actions they have taken. NPR is a media outlet that I have great respect for, who I believe to be fair to the topics they present and without corporate direction. I turn to NPR to hear high quality journalism and interviews exploring topics on both sides and not avoiding controversial topics.

    Thank you for your consideration.
    A concerned and long time listener,
    Ross Jordan, Seattle

    A few days later, I received a "thank you for your feedback" response from Kari Young, director of major and planned giving. While I appreciate a response, I think it was telling that the response came from the giving side of the station, not from operations. I think this shows how beholden the station is to the money of donors. And it's really sad how intolerant America has become.

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  14. I have observed extreme over-reaction wherever I look.. among the media, among my friends, along with odd "conversations" with my spouse. I suspect the pandemic has created some inner fear that we are all carrying around simply due to the unknown. Knowledge combats fear, and having stability regarding food, shelter, employment and medical care combats fear. We all need to play a role in maintaining a calm narrative and refrain from those demanding and emotional responses during a major global medical crisis. Heightening everyone's emotions will not calm the prevalent fear underlying our global society. Basically, Covid sucks as my millennial sons would say. It has prevented scheduling a funeral, a wedding, and even cancer treatment in my family. Thus interfering with many things we have always taken for granted. Life seems to have temporarily stopped. But so has reasonable discourse. Please can we all just take a breath? Cliff, hang in there. Maybe another eight more months to go, waiting for the vaccines.

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  15. Interesting that your critics, taking offense at comparisons you made to Nazism, turned around and behaved precisely like the Nazis did with their critics. Two days after Hitler took power in Germany, a Lutheran pastor, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, was on German radio criticizing Nazism's Furhrer Principle. He was cut off half way through. I do hope you meet a better fate that he did though. He was executed by them in 1945.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietrich_Bonhoeffer

    Best wishes for your PNW weather podcast. I imagine you'll soon have more listeners to it than ever tuned in to KNKX, which is so weak it needs string of satellite stations to reach even West Seattle. I only wish I still lived in Seattle and could benefit from your remarks. I need to look for someone similarly gifted to comment on the weather where I live now, which is at the other end of the country. "Why has it been raining almost every other day?," I have been asking myself. Probably those tropical storms in the Gulf of Mexico.

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    1. I am a huge Bonhoeffer fan, and trying to compare him to Cliff Mass is just not even close to accurate.

      Bonhoeffer was silenced. Mass still has his blog, appeared on Jason Rantz Show, and has, all in all, attracted a new following.

      Why is it that everyone wants to compare everything to Nazi Germany?

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    2. The primary reason is that if one looks at what happened directly after the Weimer regime collapsed, there are many parallels between what the Nazis did (as well as the Bolsheviks and Maoists) to those who voiced any opposition to them. First they deprived those of their primary sources of income, then drove their voices out of the public square forever, then finally...? A blog does not come close to equating a presence on a public radio station, anyone with functioning logic reasoning should be able to comprehend that reality.

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    3. Eric: As far as I'm concerned, the biggest parallel we have to the rise of Nazism now is the rise of our president as an authoritarian leader, taking advantage of real and imaginary crises and a complicit legislature "turning a blind eye" to gradually grind down our democracy. As I've been reminding folks right along, Hitler was originally elected. Watch yourselves, people!

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  16. I believe Station Manager Joey Cohn doesn't want the mob showing up at his residence. It's a form of intimidation that is working very well for that group in this area.

    The mob managed to get rid of Chief Best and manipulate the city to vote for the "eliminate the police" plan, even though the majority of residents made it clear they did not support that plan.

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  17. When we learned of Cliff Mass’s firing from KNKX based on his blog describing the wretched state of Downtown Seattle, we decided to see for ourselves, so we walked around there. It was just as Cliff described. I followed up with an email to Joey Cohn, inviting him to join me for a walking tour of Downtown Seattle. He ignored my invitation and has not responded. I am not surprised. If he saw for himself, it would not fit his narrative.

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  18. I HAVE IMMEDIATELY WITHDREW MY FINANCIAL SUPPORT FOR RADIO STATION KNKX-FM. PROF CLIFF MASS IS RIGHT & KNKX IS WRONG, WAY TOO TRIGGER HAPPY TO PULL THE MIC & I HOPE THE REST OF THE LISTENERS PULL THEIR FINANCIAL SUPPORT TOO. LET THE STATION GO QUIET & DARK.

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  19. I HAVE IMMEDIATELY WITHDREW MY FINANCIAL SUPPORT FOR RADIO STATION KNKX-FM. PROF CLIFF MASS IS RIGHT & KNKX IS WRONG, WAY TOO TRIGGER HAPPY TO PULL THE MIC & I HOPE THE REST OF THE LISTENERS PULL THEIR FINANCIAL SUPPORT TOO. LET THE STATION GO QUIET & DARK.

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  20. Thanks Cliff! I always enjoyed your segments on Fridays. I will also be withdrawing my financial support of KNKX. It's not really a news organization if everyone is forced to have exactly the same opinions. Same goes for academic institutions. I love your blog BTW.

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  21. While I don't have any sway with the radio station, I did do something I have been procrastinating on for some time.

    I bought your book.

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  22. I stand with you Cliff, and am very much looking forward to the podcast. Radio in any form is not what it used to be. For most of my life I was a huge radio listener (mostly music and sports formats), but I now I listen pretty much exclusively to Spotify and podcasts. You might find that this ridiculous firing is a blessing in disguise.

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  23. Cliff, It is too late for me to follow your advice. I pulled my support for KNKX the next day.

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  24. A truly sad turn of events. I have reluctantly ended my monthly support of a station that I was once proud to be associated with. My thoughts on Prof. Mass's blog are irrelevant. My expectations of KNKX management are VERY relevant, and I expected better.

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  25. You're too good for that station Cliff. It's a sad state we're in these days. Progressives are hijacking so many of our institutions with far left, zero-tolerance for dissent points of view around climate change, homelessness, police reform, border security, taxes, 72.43 genders, socialism, etc. Podcasts, books, audio books, blogs and YouTube videos are the best ways to get well thought-out messages to the public these days. MSM is not there to serve the people, they exist to make money - that's on both sides of the aisle. All we can do is beat the ideologically entrenched with well-reasoned arguments based on research, history, and common sense, and you're one of the best at it! Keep it coming!

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  26. Hello Professor Mass. Sorry to hear about your experience with KNKX. Please start a Patreon page as I would like to donate to a fair, balanced and reasonable person such as yourself. Thank you.

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  27. Cliff, once again I applaud your courage. The extremist left now dominates the airwaves and discussion platforms through the intimidation and harassment you are experiencing. Destroy enough lives, intimidate enough people, see enough good people like Cliff Mass get taken down and you stifle debate. And it is working. They are winning.

    Why are we calling it "cancel culture"? That is a made up social media term that does not come close to recognizing the viciousness of what this is. Intimidating and threatening people with the destruction of their lives for stating a contrary political position is not "cancel culture". It is far, far worse, and supported now by a stunning number of people with zero empathy for others and no interest in listening. And KNKX falls right in line.

    We have been watching the devolution of the left now for over 15 years. This is not "cancel culture". It is the clear erosion of the civil rights that are the foundation of who we are; the Bill of Rights are an absolutely remarkable gift to all of us. NPR should be defending Cliff Mass, not the opposite. I guess that says it all.

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  28. I just wrote to the KPKX board and management letting them know my disappointment with their action and asking them to reinstate you. I read your original blog post and agree with it 100% and share your passion for Seattle and the dangers of not responding appropriately to violence and intimidation. I am also a UW alum so please let us know if there is anything we can do to support you at the U.

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  29. Thank you for this very helpful post, Cliff! I wrote KNKX and then replied to their response. I am not sure when I will support the station again. But I do look forward to your Friday morning weather report.

    I so appreciate your voice.

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  30. Thank you for your work, Dr. Mass

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  31. Mr. Mass,
    This is upsetting, but it is in no way surprising or new. I am sure that you understand that this is not the end of it for you. If you resign your teaching position and shut down your blog they might let you go, otherwise you will remain on their radar. I do admire the tenacity. It is in a way like a massive Stanford Prison Experiment: there is this large group of connected individuals who have access to a powerful tool - the internet - which they can use to cause pain or to go after those they dislike or that they feel as a threat to their "ideals". When they
    talked about the world becoming a "global village" in the early days of the internet the thought was that the metaphor meant smaller, more connected, nicer. Instead we got the other side of the village life: narrow mindedness, pettiness, myopia, and a healthy dose of violence.
    I do think that the comparison in your original post was, while not necessarily inaccurate, strongly out of proportion. However, free speech also covers speech that is "out of proportion", or speech that I disagree with. It is also clear that you were on someone's radar long before the post. I did find your description of the meeting with the "wealthy donors" very informative. I imagine that most of them were probably white, wealthy, and clearly accustomed to weaponizing and using their white privileged to get things done, while contributing to good causes and sporting BLM signs, reading Robing DiAngelo and reflecting on the said privilege on daily basis.
    I would urge the commentators and all of you to rethink your use of terms such as leftist or progressive. I am sure that there are some genuine leftists or progressives out there, but those words are often used to describe people or institutions that are anything but. How could anyone call a city in which we had an average of almost 200 people dying on the streets a year for over a decade, without any strategy to address the problem progressive? As a nation, we are so far off the mark compare to the most advanced societies around the world that even if we were to adopt Bernie's entire agenda, not only that we would not become world leader, but it would barely put us on level terms with Canada!
    As per your "messages of support": if KNKX is to broadcast some commentary against say Sawant, there would be 50 red shirts picketing them within an hour and would stay there until they were to issue a retraction. In fact, I think they would probably be willing to do more. As I said, gotta admire the tenacity! They are willing to put in the work. What are you willing to do? In a strategic sense, you do not need to match the style or the nature of the action, but you have to match the effort and the intensity, otherwise you will fall short. In that sense your "messages of support" for Cliff, or for Best will sadly not do.

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  32. Cliff,

    You can take the measure of a man (person) based on how they handle the difficult situations in life.

    In my opinion, you have done an excellent job on shining a light on the problem issues and clearly communicating with the public. My advice is to continue to let your position be known via different media, at UW, etc. This will likely disperse the darkness and allow people to see the various positions and decide what is true on their own.

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  33. You are a mentsh Cliff. Keep up the good work...and never surrender

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  34. Thank you Cliff,
    I applaud your courage. It's definitely time to stand up the mobs. But you keep referring to the violent anarchists and their sycophants as progressives. There is nothing progressive about violence and hatred. And there is no place for what we are witnessing from Antifa and BLM in a Democratic Republic. You also should not be worried about KNKX. In fact why would you want to be a part of an organization that engages in groupthink and supports violence. This is a blessing. If you need support, there are millions of us out here that will support you just like we did Peter Ridd in Australia. The Marxists are not going to win.

    As Andrew Breitbart said “Walk toward the fire. Don’t worry about what they call you. All those things are said against you because they want to stop you in your tracks. But if you keep going, you’re sending a message to people who are rooting for you, who are agreeing with you. The message is that they can do it, too.”

    I also recommend everyone visit James Lindsay's blog http://newdiscourses.com to learn more about today's postmodernist neo-Marxists and their Kafka traps. And if you can, listen to Brett Weinstein's Dark Horse podcast. Brett took the first hits in this fight when he was at Evergreen State. And this current attack on Cliff Mass follows the same pattern.

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    1. Brett Weinstein's firing was also the first thing that came to mind while reading this. Cliff, if you read this and wish to draw more attention to the issue of cancel culture, I'd encourage you to reach out to Brett about being a guest on his podcast.

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  35. It's hard to understand why so many rich donors in the United States are supporting violent activities trying to destroy civil society. It seems to be based on a hatred of the their own country. Is it just an attempt at virtue signalling or something more strategic?

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  36. This is an important blog post, and it is a shame that KNKX management have been so tight-lipped about this whole situation. It would be instructive to hear their own detailed breakdown of how they made a decision to cancel Cliff Mass' contributions to their station. As a long-time listener and supporter of KNKX, I have made the reluctant decision to cancel my monthly supporting membership. Perhaps one day KNKX management will see the error of their ways, but their behavior in the last couple of weeks has been very disappointing.

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  37. Try this on for size Cliff - What exactly is BLM protesting? Answer: White supremacy asserted oppressively by the highest levels of government in attitude and policy on vulnerable minorities.

    What was the Warsaw ghetto uprising protesting? Answer: Aryan Supremacy asserted oppressively by the highest levels of government in attitude and policy on vulnerable minorities.

    Next question: If you like Nazi analogies, why oh why didn't the above be your first most obvious pick?

    Your attempt at analogy is inept and your unacountable delete finger betrays your own cancel culture and you know it.

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    1. Bruce....is this your argument? I AM NOT criticizing BLM protesting....I SUPPORT THAT. It is the violence I am objecting to and the tolerance of the violence by the city and certain groups. Why do you and others try to suggest I am saying something I am not?...cliff

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  38. Old white man loses his job and throws a fit. Cry me a river your old sack of shit, you still have your tenure.

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    Replies
    1. Racist, ageist, profane, and insulting. But Cliff has posted your response. One of you is a class act. Will let readers decide.

      Delete
    2. This is what the Far Left thinks is success. A thought not more evolved than a 3rd grader on a playground. How do you think Cliff got tenure? By throwing rocks at windows in the CHAZ? No it was by years of hard work. You are too ignorant to understand.

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    3. Well, that was articulate as hell. 🙄

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    4. What an educated and reasoned response.

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    5. Defunding the police....and as soon as the goons who chant this get confronted what's their battle cry...call the police...a bunch of tree hugging hypocrites that want shagrala but end up with the city(summer) of love...may I ask you peace warriors how that worked out for ya...oh yeah...you protesters (rioters) ended up at the mayor's front door...I say let's watch them eat their own..

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    6. Defund the police, the manta of BLM and Antifa, is about changing political system to Marxist model. It is not about all Black lives, only those that e can be used to promote this political change.
      But Marxism does not tolerate opposing voices.
      The 30% increase in Black American homicide deaths following the late 2014 attacks on policing are of no consequence. The recent Gallup pole showing over 80% of Black Americans against police defunding is to be ignored.
      Defundpolice clearly does not care for Black lives.

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    7. Please don’t believe this is a real response from a real person who really wants to defund the police. Critical thinking, folks! This is a troll. The user name and the insulting post is meant to inflame those on the right into thinking those on the left are unfeeling a holes. Please don’t buy into this! The divisiveness in our country is completely spurred on by people believing these bs inflammatory posts. Don’t respond or react. It’s total crap. Ok? Let’s overcome all of this together!

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  39. Good for you, Cliff. One thing I never understood was your rationale for working for KNKX in the first place.

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  40. Jon Talton made many of the same points you do in the Seattle Times op-ed, but without the rancor. None of my lefty friends are happy with the Seattle Council. Nor have they voted for the worst offenders on that council.

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  41. Because you use reason you enable conservatives and liberals both to engage in conversation and further understanding for all, hopefully leading us to better solutions.

    Interesting, I too had thoughts of Kristallnacht when watching the looting and destruction of businesses and dreams of those who owned them. I also had thoughts of the French Revolution which showed the power of the mob. The 'heavy handedness' of the Seattle Police would not have happened had the protests remained quiet and peaceful. Yes, most intended to be peaceful, and sometimes tried to restrain those who turned them into looting and damage of property, but not enough once the police were no longer allowed to or limited in how they could control. It is interesting a Gallup poll showed 81% of blacks want more police presence, not less. I wonder who wants less?

    Please be careful, we need bold and reasoned voices to help us to move forward rather than being intimidated by fear from those who want to dominate and direct the conversation. Many professors are losing their jobs also.

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  42. Cliff, you were definitely wronged. One problem with cancel culture, which is the extreme form of politically correct, is that a fruitful discussion is cut off, and that's exactly what happened here. So a public radio station, which is supposed to expand horizons, winds up doing exactly the opposite. Terms like antifa are getting thrown around like water. Trump used those accusations when arrests showed that antifa was not the problem. What's the truth? We won't find out because discussion is being cut off. Brownshirts? doubtful analogy but, hey, why not discuss the similarities and dissimilarities? Joey Cohn-you messed up badly, to the detriment of everyone.

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  43. My email to KNKX:
    Dear Messrs Martinez and Cohn, I did not think Cliff Mass' likening of Seattle vandalism (in the wake of otherwise peaceful protests) to Kristallnacht was apt or appropriate. The comparison distracted from rather than strengthening the comparisons he wanted to make. However, I have much appreciated Mass' data-informed, scientifically grounded posts over the years. When these stray from weather discussions to climate-change and beyond to issues of education and school reform or, further, to the wisdom of defunding the Seattle police, I may not always agree but posts at least lay the groundwork for a thoughtful discussion.

    You and your radio stations by firing Cliff Mass, have communicated your intolerance for these kinds of discussion. Your actions undermine not only your station but also the whole of NPR and its mission. I remain a supporter of NPR. But I am no longer a supporter of your station. I think your days are numbered. A pity, since I had hoped you would provide a counterpoint to KUOW.

    -- William Jones, Kirkland, WA.

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  44. Such a shame. Way back in the more Jazz and less talk days of KPLU I volunteered at the station during fund drives when I was between jobs (spring 1995) and unable to contribute funds. Back on my feet I was again a regular contributor and also answered phones at various times with my niece, brother and wife. As KPLU cut back on their jazz programing I cut back on thecthe amount of my contributions was reduced but I was still a contributor through 2019. When I heard of this intimidation and attempted censorship I wrote KNKX and severed my relationship with them. They were good enough to respond but their explanation was weak and changes nothing for me.

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  45. Zealotry can afflict liberals as well as conservatives. The zealot feels powerful as they feel they alone are on the true path and are intolerant of information that challenges their beliefs. That makes it hard for those of us who share some of the same goals as the activist/zealot but not the same fervor or willingness to discard facts that do not support their aim(s). I am becoming increasingly worried about our society as the extremes seem every more dominant in part due to the fragmentation of media and increased acceptance of "alternative facts".

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  46. Thank you for standing up for your principles, Cliff. You have my support.

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  47. living in downtown seattle, if anything Cliffs post was far more generous to the state of decay that has occurred. Fear, open drug use, trash, mental illness, crime. I can walk 2 blocks from my home through the center of seattle and watch people openly smoking meth in the entrance door to the metro station at Nordstrom. I can see drug users passed out on sidewalks at every block. I can see trash piling up from the homeless and mentally ill left to sleep on the streets. While still incredibly disappointing, im not at all surprised by the lack of moral leadership shown by the radio stations leadership. Cliff you are better off not working with these weak minded individuals. Whenever a door closes, a window is opened

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    Replies
    1. Sounds like a lot of great reasons to defund the police and establish real drug treatment and homelessness programs.

      Delete
  48. Thankyou so much for all you're weather posts and not being afraid to speak up when you see something wrong. Our so called "leaders" refuse to put forth real solutions so its refreshing to see someone scientifically analyze an issue and come up with an intelligent solution, we need more people like you. There was nothing offensive about you're post you backed up everything with facts and it was obvious you were referring to the violent protesters. Martin Luther King once said those that make peaceful change impossible make violent change inevitable and I think his words are starting to come true. Alot of people have been unhappy with the police for years, they complained and tried to elect the right people but nothing happened so they are resorting to less peaceful tactics. Alot of people are also upset over rents rising faster than wages and they will resort to less peaceful tactics if something isn't done to stop evictions/keep rents in line with wages. I am not trying to defend the violent protesters, what they did was wrong. I am saying that when one side makes a demand and the other side refuses to budge the demands get more extreme and this lack of compromise has put us in a never ending cycle of escalation that ends in disaster. Now more than ever we need people to have rational fact discussions and I am very dissapointed that a public radio station will not have these discussions I will no longer listen to KNKX and I will be visiting NPR alot less now. I have tried to post scientific facts on progressive blogs and gotten ridiculed, I'm dissapointed I thought progressives were better than that. A real progressive doesn't ignore the facts and is willing to listen to other viewpoints.

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  49. It appears my longer post was not approved, so I'll go more succinct:

    Before we come to your defense, please defend your hyperbolic statement that started this drama that "Seattle has now had it's Kristallnacht".

    Yes the protests in Seattle and Kristallnacht have had something in common: broken glass and graffiti (astute observation) I would like to consider the full context of Kristallnacht and then see you defend yourself in a way that is reasonable and appropriate. Kristallnacht also involved: the persecution of a minority group (Jews), over 250 places of worship destroyed, graves destroyed, hundreds murdered, rapes, suicides, and over 30000 Jews arrested and kept in concentration camps. Look forward to your response. Thank you.

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    1. Just Saying... happy to respond. I think I need to write a more detailed comparison. We had violent groups, targeting specific businesses, with the city unwilling to stop it, and some politicians actually supportive. This is NOT an exact replica....please get past that. But for a democracy it is very, very serious. Quite honestly, an existential threat...cliff

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  50. Talk about the weather, and I'll read every word. It's nice that you have this platform to share what you consider moderate thoughts on local (and national) politics, but I'm not sure why you are surprised or even aggrieved that your words have repercussions. People turn to you here for information on the weather. Do what you do best and leave the politics out of it.

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    1. IOW, "stay in your lane and know your place, peasant."

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    2. Not what Mr. Watson said at all.

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  51. Cliff, you have about 14 months to file a competing FCC application for the license. You have excellent grounds to argue that the current management is unfit, since they have ignored their obligation to be responsive to the broad community, vs. special interests. I've emailed Mr. Cohn that I'm willing to help fund your application.

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  52. Unfortunately for you Cliff, reasoned discussion is dead today. Any deviation from the party line, left or right, is grounds for ejection. Intelligent discussion, exchanging ideas and moving off rigid positions is strictly forbidden. I appreciate what you are trying to do, and very much enjoy reading your blog. Please keep writing.

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  53. Attacks on freedom of thought and on the person, his livelihood, of one who thinks freely are at least as dangerous to a civilization as attacks on the basis of race. We must defend freedom of thought and expression of ALL, as our reluctance so to defend is the first step toward our own being silenced.

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  54. How do you think Steve Inskeep replaced Bob Edwards? Bob was a great man and as fair as anyone in the news business. NPR has always been left leaning but at least it was tolerable before Inskeep took over. He came on when Al Gore lost the presidential election. NPR and their donors put the press on to make damn sure that another Democrat didn't lose a presidential race.
    I can't listen to the station without my BP going to the moon so I don't.

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  55. You cannot reason with the zombies of the left. They are brain washed and not smart enough to understand what they are doing. We need to vote for Trump and other conservative who will defend American values and jail the violent demonstrators.
    But first George Soros has to die.

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    Replies
    1. So comments have to be approved before being posted, and you approved this one Cliff? “George Soros has to die”? Talk about anti-Semitic fascism. Scary.

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    2. Cliff, many of your supporters make good points but this is anti-Semitic, hateful and violent.

      Delete
  56. What the hell did you think was going to happen?
    Didn't you study the French Revolution?
    Marxist movements always end in tears.

    You appeased the crocodile but it didn't wait to eat you until last and you're surprised?
    Liberal fascists are eating liberal fascists and I'm almost out of popcorn!

    What did you think was going to happen?
    We're laughing as you sanctimonious idiots burn down your own cities.

    Do you get it yet?

    BTW, when your comrades torch a police station or a $32 million affordable housing complex in a black neighborhood, does that CO2 steal Greta's childhood?

    Fools.

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  57. Thank you for posting this follow up. When I received the email from KNKX my immediate response back to them was, "cancel culture" and had a feeling they hadn't even discussed it with you yet. Keep up the good work.

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  58. Sorry this happened to you Cliff. Please keep up the good work as balanced scientific/fact-based knowledge is a persecuted concept right now.

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  59. Maybe you all need to step back from the usual divisive politicking and go enjoy the weather (Spoiler: this is a weather blog). The summer is pretty much about over. Go out and enjoy. The country will still be a train wreck after this weekend.

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  60. Hey didn't this happen to you at KUOW also? I spot a trend! Carmen Best needed to go. If she cared about the people in Seattle, she wouldn't live in SNOHOMISH.

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  61. Ignore the naysayers, Cliff, the vast majority are here behind you and appreciate your thoughtful analysis of weather AND current affairs. It's amazing to see the progressive's hatred for any viewpoint other than their own and I'm sorry you've become a victim; I'm glad you're not silenced. By the way, you mentioned KNKX's Joey Cohn previously told you that you must "talk to him before I publicly supported an initiative again." What an incredibly patronizing and outrageous thing to say to you -- I hope you told him there was no way that was going to happen.

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  62. Just cut up the check,,will be sending a letter and the little piece's of the check in the mail. I would have been ok had it not involved filthy lies and bias specifically your examples of favor towards others like rick s. I am sorry cliff. And Brandy better be respectful on the divide in the morning or thats it, im trolling her till she blocks me. I miss you already

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  63. I suppose calling the station and wasting their time with two cent donations during their next pledge drive would be puerile.

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  64. This is a very disappointing development. The current national crisis has complex currents which will be treacherous to navigate.

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  65. Today's bookburners are on the left. That has become quite clear.

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  66. Time for the old dinosaurs to give up the ghost. These old white men who have no idea what struggles regular citizens experience, and they don't want to know. Time for change. The Nazis are you.

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  67. Cliff, I hope you realize that many people supporting you here are doing so because they feel you're a right-winger. I hope you're OK with that impression.

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    1. Mark..... I think you are wrong on BOTH counts. People are supporting me because they believe in free speech and diversity of viewpoints--the bedrock of a democratic society. And I am not a right-winger... I am a classic Democratic liberal. One that respects the rights of all to express their views, is revolted by violence and intimidation, and notes that folks on BOTH sides of the political aisle are worthy of respect. I hope YOU are OK with that viewpoint...cliff

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  68. Cliff,
    I've been a fan of your weather reports and learned something about the state of math education the last time you were fired from a radio slot. I don't know if your firing this time was fair or not but I don't think you're so naive as to think your Kristallnacht post wasn't a provocation, and a clumsy one at that. Here are several reasons why it was not a good comparison.

    First, Godwin's rule. Again with the Nazis.

    Hitler had been chancellor for 5 years before Kristallnacht. The SA was Hitler's private army of street thugs. The authorities didn't intervene because the authorities organized the pogrom. There is no comparison here -- the Seattle city council didn't organize the rioting. It didn't intervene because, rightly or wrongly, they decided intervening was worse than not intervening, not because they wanted to destroy downtown or "send a message."

    There is no comparison between the SA and any group among the "radical left" -- antifa is not an organization, and it doesn't take orders from any authority, least of all any elected official. The city council is not directing antifa to destroy property.

    Kristallnacht targeted a specific group of people with beatings and property destruction, after many years of escalating attacks on that group, first extralegally and then legally as the Nazis passed anti-Jewish laws and tacitly endorsed anti-Jewish violence. The city council, for all its faults, has not passed any kind of law targeting demographic groups (if you're going to compare taxes on Amazon or a slow police response in your neighborhood or whatever to the Nuremberg laws then you've lost the argument). The property destruction downtown didn't target any specific group beyond "corporations," which aren't an ethnicity. Cherrypicking a couple of Jewish business among many that were hit proves it wasn't a pogrom.

    Downtown is screwed up for a lot of reasons, the pandemic being the main one right now, on top of years of an intractable homelessness crisis. The city might suck at solving these problems but it recognizes them as problems, and have tried to deal with them. They're not actively trying to make these problems worse, even if you think their policies do that.

    On top of this now there are antipolice protests that are inspired by real problems and informed by the perspectives of minority groups who are not in power. Their options for expressing themselves and enacting change are limited, leading to street protests, which give cover to violent opportunists. Most people agree that the violence is bad and distracts from the BLM message, you even said so. Here again though, comparisons to Krstallnacht hurt your argument. The power dynamic between the actors and the state is entirely reversed. Even those who think the violence is justified view the dynamic as one of the weak against the strong -- exactly the reverse of the SA vs the Jews in 1930s Germany (despite what Mein Kampf said about internationalist bankers).

    A lot of what you imply amounts to a "slippery slope" argument. Slippery slopes are fallacious. There is no evidence that the council as a whole endorses property destruction or views the downtown destruction as a means to an end. Kshama is not the council. They may be reacting poorly, they may have made a mistake with Carmen Best. These are valid points of disagreement, but again, comparisons to 1938 Germany is so off base that the only reason to bring it up is to provoke. I don't see what the point of that was.

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    Replies
    1. No Louis... I think the parallels to Germany are far better than you think....and my "firing" from KNKX is further proof of it. Violence against property and people is NOT furthering the BLM message...it is burying it. I never said this was exactly the same situation....but the seriousness of the violence and the toleration of the violence by the city and activist groups is absolutely destructive to our democracy. Of course, the city did not organize the violence...but they allowed it to happen...and there was substantial signaling support in number of ways, including the defund police movement.

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    2. Thank you, Louis. I oppose destruction of property, whether by some BLM protestors or "Proud Boy" fanatical right-wing infiltrators. Cliff complains about cancel culture, but isn't he partaking by "canceling" KNKX? My partner's dad endured years in concentration camps, witnessed Kristallnacht first-hand, and lost his sisters to the Nazi murderers. It's damned offensive to compare it to the property destruction in Seattle.
      I don't believe ACAB, I don't approve of breaking windows, but sheesh...Cliff's comment about activists reminds me of right-wing radio "personality" Jason Rantz, who's constantly bitching about those evil activists. Activists participated in the civil rights movement, marched for women's rights to vote, rallied against child labor, etc. Gandhi, Frederick Douglass, MLK Jr., James Madison, Malala, Harvey Milk - all activists. Bottom line: Please don't throw that word around so carelessly.

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    3. Louis, I felt informed by reading your response. Cliff, I felt informed by reading your original blogpost. I wish the situation had been resolved with a KNKX on-air discussion program between Cliff and Louis. You two would have listened to each other, learned some more, and all of us listeners would have learned too. (There's no need to give equal airtime to ignorant folk, of course, but neither Cliff nor Louis are in that bucket.)

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    4. Louis, I agree with you. In 1938 Germany the violence was perpetrated in order to further the goal of white supremacy. The opposite is true here in 2020 Seattle. Cliff, obviously violence is bad, broken glass is bad, but if you take a moment to consider the socio-political context and the power dynamics at work, your analogy is really inappropriate.

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    5. Seth...please study the period more. The German violence was NOT about white supremacy...Jews were white. It was antisemitic in nature and anti-capitalist as well (jews were considered to be key group pushing capitalist finance, etc). The analog to this summer is FAR closer than you understand or acknowledge.

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    6. Hi Cliff, I see you won't post my responses to this thread, which means you concede my argument. The right thing to do is admit you made a mistake, move on from it, and stop encouraging all these angry people commenting on your blog. I think you believe you're making a righteous stand but its foundation is compromised. This blog has become another venue for the same stupid battle playing out everywhere else along predictable, manufactured lines. How is it helping?

      You have an opportunity with your position to calm things down a bit. Take responsibility, people will listen to you and respect you for it.

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  69. I appreciate that Cliff is willing to have a point of view publicly in a time when people are often afraid to. It is grist for the mill. I am not always sure that his point of view is mine, but that is OK! Keeps me n my toes.
    I have benefited much from his weather analysis for some years now. Thanks!

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  70. This is liberalism gone terribly off track. Do these folks know that Washington State has the most regressive state tax in the US? Do they know that Washington State has almost no protection for Puget Sound riparian? Apparently not. And yet they rage about Dr. Mass' objection to violent protest. It reminds me of the kayak folks who rowed out to protest an oil rig because of their concern about climate change. I supported them but wondered if any of them knew how little protection there was for the water they were in. Liberalism without education is just as counter productive as conservatism without education.

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  71. Cliff.. from one of your friends, fellow scientists and followers out here in the "real" world, my good thoughts are with you. Your blogs have ALWAYS been nothing but scientific and thought provoking (you remember.. it's called critical thought!). From Texas, I always remember the expression, "the stuck pig squeals".. truth hurts sometimes doesn't it. You're still the best in the field, my friend.

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  72. Cliff, thanks for your intellectual bravery in sharing your thoughts. What concerns me about your experience (and the many others like it) is that public trust in mainstream media was already at an all-time low, partly because Trump has spent 4 years making the "Fake news" accusations. I never took his rhetoric seriously (and still don't), but the media's coverage of events in the past 3 months has absolutely shocked me into reconsideration in my respect for the media.
    In recent months, the US mainstream media has not even made a pretense of being objective or evaluating this topic from different angles. Instead, they have openly embraced a pro-activism agenda in their reporting that suppressed any critical evaluation, data-driven analysis, or airing of contrary views (as you would naturally expect to see on a typical news topic). I can't recall another news story when it was so difficult to find divergent perspectives in large publications to add more nuance and complexity to the topic. When media bias is so explicit and so intentional in this case, how will citizens trust their reporting on future topics?
    As someone who has had a heavy diet of "elite media" for years, it has been disorienting to lose so much faith, so rapidly, in these once-prestigious institutions. If that happened to me, how will the media expect to ever regain credibility with people who are right of center? 
    The media loves to remind us how vital their industry is for a well-functioning democracy, and I generally agree. They claim that public faith in their reporting of basic facts is essential, but they have been actively destroying their own credibility with recent reporting, and I don't know how they will earn it back. This is an "own goal" of the highest level.

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  73. Cliff, thanks for your intellectual bravery in sharing your thoughts. What concerns me about your experience (and the many other recent ones like it) is that public trust in mainstream media was already at an all-time low, partly because Trump has spent 4 years making the "Fake news" accusations. I never took his rhetoric seriously (and still don't), but the media's coverage of events in the past 3 months has absolutely shocked me into reconsideration in my respect for the media.

    In recent months, the US mainstream media has not even made a pretense of being objective or evaluating this topic from different angles. Instead, they have openly embraced a pro-activism agenda in their reporting that suppressed any critical evaluation, data-driven analysis, or airing of contrary views (as you would naturally expect to see on a typical news topic). I can't recall another news story when it was so difficult to find divergent perspectives in large publications to add more nuance and complexity to the topic. When media bias is so explicit and so intentional in this case, how will citizens trust their reporting on future topics?

    As someone who has had a heavy diet of "elite media" for years, it has been disorienting to lose so much faith, so rapidly, in these once-prestigious institutions. If that happened to me, how will the media expect to ever regain credibility with people who are right of center? 

    The media loves to remind us how vital their industry is for a well-functioning democracy, and I generally agree. They claim that public faith in their reporting of basic facts is essential, but they have been actively destroying their own credibility with recent reporting, and I don't know how they will earn it back. This is an "own goal" of the highest level.

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  74. Cliff, what happened to you has me both disheartened and a bit frightened. The post by "Unknown" just above mine (timestamped August 19, 2020 at 6:13 PM) expresses eloquently how I'm perceiving our situation these days. Heaven help us.

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  75. I'm ditto-ing both Squirrel and Unknown above, Cliff. As a fellow professor in a college here in Washington, I'm in awe of your intellectual bravery and especially the many responses you are giving here to people who are attacking you. It is bringing tears to my eyes today, because I know every single thing we do, say, or reflect is a model for how to behave in a civilized world. As a teacher, I've always thought of my role as a kind of guardian of civilization. Unfortunately, I don't believe that world exists anymore. We are experiencing the death throes of democracy, and I shudder to consider what might be taking its place after the election if Trump wins. Please, keep up the good work you are doing. I've withdrawn all support from KNKX and will not be listening again. What a pity. For thinking individuals, what remains a dilemma is where to find actual news that is (for the most part) unbiased and objective. Perhaps it's not to be found. In any event, since Trump has tried to hijack expert weather reports in the past, I count on you for the truth about what is at least happening in the skies. Thank you.

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  76. Cliff,

    I cannot thank you enough for standing up to these forces of intolerance. I am very disturbed by events in Seattle and here in Portland. I take some comfort in knowing that there are still some reasonable people willing to do what must be done.

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  77. Dr. Mass,

    Thank you for standing for truth and reason. I have always loved your weekly radio show on KPLU/KNKX, and regular follower of your blog. Please keep your posts coming! The actions by KNKX management is appalling. I will email them. I am thankful that your commitment to true science is not swayed by fads or the agendas of wacky activists. May we all have the integrity subordinate our OPINIONS to the DATA, not twist the data to fit our opinions.

    Best regards,
    Ron Finney, Gig Harbor, WA

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  78. Just discovered your blog (looking at NW fires), saw this, and had to express my support for your perspective, courage, and articulate communication on this issue. Nothing is black and white, there are all kinds of nuances, and they matter. The forces that drove you out of KNKX are the same forces that may get Donald Trump re-elected, and that will be a tragic paradoxical outcome.
    We must differentiate between compassion for people with valid grievances, and support for their actions. The violent actors now are like 3 year olds having tantrums. They are destroying their own toys and playrooms and driving away those who love them, just like a 3 year old in the middle of a tantrum. Good parents will not coddle that behavior, nor will they quit loving the child. This kind of reaction to the violence is not happening anywhere; it's either being coddled, as in Seattle, or punished, as in anywhere the Feds are involved. (I think Carmen Best had the attitude of a good parent, and tragic to lose her.)
    I don't trust anyone who is always totally on one side of any issue, because reality doesn't work that way. It's also a terrible strategy for educating people who disagree. Unfortunately it's also a very natural human reaction from our tribal evolution.
    So, keep up the discipline of following science and truth. I hope your karma can finally run over their dogma!

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  79. These present day leftists are drawing from history. Nobody listens to them with enough attention without adopting thug behavior. Enter BLM as the thug element. Their demands have zero to do with race and everything about threats and terror. Anyone stating this obvious fact is targeted, ignored, silenced etc. Mao and Russian communists didn't get anywhere until they found their groove with thugs. Always the same. The parallels are real and scary.

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  80. You should have and should hereafter just stick to the weather. That's your expertise and why people follow you. We do not want or need yet another person telling us about politics, regardless of their views.

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  81. Haven't seen much discussion of which groups were engaged in property destruction, here in Seattle or anywhere else. I don't think Cliff should have been dismissed, but I think the issue of property destruction is a little more complex than many make it. See 'Umbrella Man' in Minneapolis. I think comparing the relative few who engage in property destruction to the brownshirts of the 30s is quite the stretch. I also think 'moderate' is position that far, far, to the right of what it used to mean. Anyhow, sorry Cliff got dismissed, but let's keep things in the realm of the reasonable.

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  82. https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/09/16/miami-herald-libre-racist-anti-semitic/#comments-wrapper

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  83. Thank you for your courage and your voice. In my view, you are one of today's heroes.

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  84. I found you through your article published on Zero Hedge. I truly enjoyed your science based approach concerning the fires in Oregon. I am sorry you were pushed out of your job after reading this blog post. The "left" has become unhinged for some time. It amazes me how anti-semitism isn't considered racism by the left. I read an article about "protestors" threatening to burn down someone's home simply because the homeowners displayed an Amirican Flag. They wont protest in my community, or if they would it wouldn't be safe for them. Take care and I look forward to reading more results and articles, as it pertains to your study of meteorological science.

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  85. Is there any way someone who is over 60 but not a Washington resident can audit or otherwise access online your Atmospheric Science 101 course?

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  86. I received my annual request for contribution from KNKX. Not this time. When they play politics with science and weather, it’s time to put my charitable giving elsewhere. Keep up the good science-based approach Cliff Mass.

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