Friday, February 6, 2009

Nice Saturday, Decent Sunday


The front has moved through and much of the action has headed to southern and central California (see sat picture). Believe me, they need every drop of rain and flake of snow they can get down there after a multi-year drought. Tomorrow should be sunny, perhaps with some residual morning clouds, with temps near 50. Nice for a walk or gardening. The snowpack is still in bad shape...there was a little light snow above 4000ft but not enough to really help. On Sunday, a frontal system will approach, but rain won't reach the interior until the evening. Rainshadow overnight and snow showers in the mountains on Monday, with a good chance of a Puget Sound convergence zone that day. Our air will cool on Monday and will be below normal on Tuesday as a more powerful system approaches. Tomorrow I will give you an update on the wintry mix that may be possible later on Tuesday. But a hint: if you live in Kitsap County, you might be ready for some white stuff.

PS: If you live in the Bellingham area, I will be up there on Sunday (4 PM) at Village Books talking about the local weather of that region.

46 comments:

Cliff Mass Weather Blog said...

All...I am getting comments from a few of you about my use of terminology like "nice" , "bad", and "good." PLEASE, allow me to provide this informal blog in the way I feel comfortable with. If you don't like the way I use language you might want to go to other blog sites..I suspect that 99.99% of you understand. I removed a series of messages dealing with the use of "nice"..cliff

Phil said...

Some people are just always looking for something to complain about. Anybody that thinks that a sunny day of 50+ degrees in early February is not nice, hasn't lived in the Puget Sound long. We should be appreciative that someone as accomplished as Cliff provides us with this blog and the great information he gives on a daily basis, and even takes time to answer questions and so on. Apparently that is not enough for some folks. What is next, people commenting on typing or grammatical errors? Get a hobby.

Anonymous said...

Cliff - I think most of us know how to skip over posts that are off topic or trolling. It is your blog and you can do what you want but to the extent you delete posts you are selecting against people who disagree with you. That reduces the level of the discussion, especially when you delete posts that disagree with your politics (i.e. road salt, radar issues, etc).

andycottle said...

Hey Cliff...

I really like reading your blog and is always good to hear on what you have to say. After all, this is your blog. :o)

nicky said...

Please keep blogging! I really enjoy getting an intelligent take on the weather.

Anonymous said...

You all are insane.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous at 10:21 is completely correct. By deleting only select posts, you're selecting against people who disagree. That not only discourages discussion, but isn't it a human-given right for people to have different opinions? I'm glad you think that there's only one possible opinion for everyone to have, but that shouldn't mean you should be deleting only selected comments of people who don't agree with what you say.

Phil said...

Isn't it ironic that all of the people that are complaining and making negative comments happen to be "anonymous"? For all we know it's the same guy pretending to be someone else agreeing with him. You sound pretty stupid and petty arguing whether people should have the right to argue about which adjective Cliff should use to describe the weather. A lot of us enjoy and appreciate Cliff's blog, so it would be nice if people like you didn't ruin it for the rest of us. As Cliff said, if you don't like it, find another blog.

Anonymous said...

Cliff, I left a message earlier simply asking you what the meaning of some of the terminology you use is, but you never replied. Is that question too difficult for you to answer that you ignore it? I thought our comments were suppose to be to help clarify some of the things you say and terminology you use, are they not? Thanks!

letshavefun1536 said...

Phil, I actually noticed a name on one or two of what you call "negative" comments earlier. I don't remember when. I would tend to agree though about the selective deletion myself.

WeatherNerd said...

I agree with Phil, it is most likely the same person signing on here with different names agreeing with one another on negative comments. This is Cliff's blog and he should be able to use the terminology he desires.
There are days when a number of questions are directed at Cliff, and this is just my opinion, he probably does not have time to answer each and every question, although he does a great job at getting to most.
For the most part I enjoy reading folks' observations and questions about the weather. I have learned a lot on here and rarely watch the news for a weather forecast anymore. This blog has been great! I have had a NICE time writing on and reading this blog. :)
Back to the weather--bring on more snow before we exit the cold season! It appears that recently any possible weather systems headed our way are torn apart before reaching the mainland. If this continues into the spring might we be looking at some level of a drought locally?

Brian said...

Cliff, out of curiosity, did you grow up in this area? Have you lived anywhere else in the country?

I just am curious - I moved here from the eastern US and the weather here seems to be extremely boring in comparison. Yet you seem to find it exciting - so it seems maybe you have been used to it your entire life?

climo man said...

I`m having a hard time biting on the cold trough/"strong" front the NWS is predicting for the Mon.-Tues. time period.It looks like Sunday`s system is already beginning to split and weaken, and I suspect the Mon./Tues. one will suffer a similar fate.Until I see evidence of a srong cold upper level low digging southward,I think that we`ll remain in a relatively dry,dull spit flow.I bet that California, especially the Sierras will see most of the weather action the next week or two.

JewelyaZ said...

Cliff,
I encourage you to turn off ANONYMOUS blog posting to your blog... it's not like we're posting deep dark secrets about body image or anything... as they say, "man up" and identify yourself, anon posters!

I for one understand your use of adjectives... you use them as most laypeople would and that's helpful to those of us who are regular folks who happen to enjoy some weather drama here and there.

I hope we get one more blast of winter before we're done, because it's pretty and fun as long as it doesn't stick around for two weeks. LOL We could use the precip in any form, so why not have snow with the "pretty" factor?

Josh-B said...

Yes Cal is needing all the moisture they can get. They are out of money and if they don't get more precip, we will be paying for their fire emergencies that will come... Most likely we will be paying for it anyways..

Anonymous said...

Ignore all the negative stuff, Cliff - it's just chaff. I enjoy your blog. It's YOUR BLOG, not a publicly funded information site. I think people get confused because you are talking about scientific rather than personal information on your blog. Do these same complainers complain on other people's personal blogs about content? Ridiculous.

Anonymous said...

Cliff, please give more info about the potential for more snow in February. I'm really hoping for one more big snow this season! I need insight!

JayDee said...

Cliff:

Please delete away -- We are using a precious commodity, your time and ours to discuss the weather. If others don't appreciate it, oh well. I appreciate your information and input on the weather -- Straight talk and educational for those of us who may not have degrees in meteorology.

Josh said...

I personally don't mind at all discussing the weather; I simply wish it would be discussed in a manner open to all. When subjective terms are introduced, Cliff elects to leave it open to discussion. Just the fact that he won't allow discussion on those terms, and the fact that many of you seem to agree with him, means that he and those people believe them to be objective. In which case you are intentionally shunning a portion of the population who happen to have different opinions.

Anonymous said...

Cliff does have the right to define the meaning of "nice", especially when he is using "nice weather" to describe what almost everyone agrees is nice weather.

However, when he says that he considers road salt and a government-funded radar system to be "nice" he is not discussing science but his personal opinion. When he deletes contrary opinions on those topics (apparently for being "not nice") he helps to create a homogeneous set of postings, and one that more closely reflects his point of view. Many people start blogs for that purpose and not to stimulate discussion.

Brian said...

Josh, its Cliff's blog. He can say nice in any way he wants to and we can all agree with him because like he said, 99.99% of people understand and agree that sunny weather is nice. Whether you like snow, rain, wind, or not. So if you are that other .01% of people, go find another blog that fits with that 0.1%. It also feels like you are just starting a discussion and a reason for arguing over nothing at all, just the fact that you want to argue.

akinvic said...

Cliff can do as he pleases on his blog...and if you don't like it go away. It's that simple. It's not like there's other places to go. If it were my blog, I'd delete inappropriate comments. It's up to him to decide what is and what isn't. I, amongst most others, enjoy the info he provides tremendously. My 2 cents.

Brian said...

Brian - Your 99.99% is not an accurate figure. That percentage is a lot lower. Though if you notice, you did change your number later in your post. Anyway, there are A LOT of people who like weather. It's unfortunate that none of them are actually found in the meteorology field itself.

Matt said...

So hey, it's a lot nicer out there than expected and than what Cliff said it would be... how long might this last? How long do I have outside before it goes away? :)

Thank you.

Anonymous said...

We were planning on being in southern California this weekend but had to put it off for work reasons. Currently 52F there. So much for heading south to see the sun. Actually it was much nicer here this last week - my car thermometer measured 66F in Shelton. "Nice" is a good enough scientific terminology for me!

Things are dire in California water-wise. The Mendocino Coast is currently at a Stage 3 drought alert. At Stage 4 they require homeowners with wells (such as my mother in law's) to install meters - at the homeowner's expense. Bolinas is facing similar consequences. They haven't had any rain all winter and the groundwater is pretty much gone. Also, in Mendocino and Fort Bragg they pretty much suspended permits for any new wells or water hookups until this changes - basically stopping any kind of new commercial or residential development there. Not the the housing crisis is stimulating any building! I just ran into a friend at the farmer's market who mentioned she is heading to Santa Cruz. Down there, everyone is currently calling Rain "nice"!

Casey Burns
Kingston

Matt said...

Casey - sounds like California is the place to be right now, not here! Thanks!

Matt Davis
Bellevue

SnowLover said...

Man, where is the 50*? Up here in Sammamish, it's still 39* and the fog has yet to burn completely off. Played golf this morning and it was impossible to see the greens. I'm hoping we see the 50 sometime today...

Anonymous said...

SnowLover, it's ironic that your name is SnowLover but you want to see it get to 50 degrees. :)

andycottle said...

41 and cloudy here in Woodinville.

JayDee said...

The evil yellow orb :-) is threatening to break out above Alki in the next half-hour, and temps should move upwards from 43 degrees.

Meanwhile it is raining in LA. How nice.

SnowLover said...

I'm a purist -- if it's going to be cold, then snow so I have something nice to look at. Otherwise, warm on up. :)

Joseph Ratliff said...

I am in agreement with JewelyaZ, if you turn off the "anon" comments...it really won't detract from the discussion too much, and perhaps some of the comments left would be more respectful.

Bottom line, this is Cliff's blog, and for a University Professor to take time out of their day to provide advanced level insight to a hard to understand science...of their own free will...is a blessing.

Cliff can delete comments, change posts, discuss whatever he wants when he wants to...etc...etc...

As for terminology (commonly used weather terminology, not the use of "nice")...perhaps a post on that sometime in the future would be a good discussion.

For a simple example, the use of "breezy" vs. "windy" etc... or "powerful front" vs. "moderate front" if there is a difference that is a standard of some type.

inkprincess said...

yay! I'm in the Kitsap area!

Josh-B said...

Humans have been discussing the weather since weather became weather. First thing most people say to a stranger is "Nice weather we are having". The other party may say to the contrary from his point of view. Nice weather to one could not be so nice to another. Thats why for the most part it is neutral. Besides arguing politics, the state of the weather is right up there with many heated discussions around the world. It comes with the territory. Professor Mass has every right to delete comments. It's his blog. Thats what a blog administrator does. This blog seems to be educational more than a place for opposite views. If so then lets put in out 2 cents once in a wile and learn about rainshawdows. * Cheers

andycottle said...

This mornings WRF-GFS as well as last nights shows some nice, cold troughs coming into our region for Mon, Wed and later Sat with 500mb temps between -34 to -38c.

Notice I used the word ''nice'' to loosely describe the forecasted troughs. So for me to say there 'nice troughs' would be say ythat could provide some interesting weather with maybe some afternoon ice pellet showers or some other type of convective precip.

Anonymous said...

Did some yardwork today, got my veggi garden bed ready for planting, transplanted some blueberry plants....It was sunny but COLD! Doesn't really seem like we had much of a winter....just periodic rain, a little snow, not much wind...kind of ho-hum....I'm ready for spring/warmer weather but kind of bummed about the boring winter! One really good storm (wind preffered) would be nice to say good bye to winter! Any chances of that in the next couple of weeks?

Anonymous said...

Drove out of foggy Olympia (high was 39.9) to sunny Copalis Beach (48) where the family enjoyed our first clam dig.

Thanks for the blog, Cliff.

climo man said...

Cliff, how come the NWS has not forecast the snow level for both Monday and Tuesday in the Cascades Zone Forecast? (They did the same in yesterday`s forecast, too.) Is this just a goof that wasn`t caught, or a wimpy broad brush?

Jessica said...

Every blog probably goes thru growing pains - both in attracting readers and the blogger themselves learning to set realistic expectations for just how much *control* they have over the responses left on their site.

I assumed that there was something particularly offensive or unhelpful about the comments that required they be removed. Sure, it seems like a homogenizing gesture but ... maybe this is just a learning curve for a fairly new site. For myself, I find this blog a fantastic mix of local-lore, (wind gusts in neighborhoods I've always wondered about), and detailed, scientific weather facts.

That we can get all this and share our own bits - how lucky are we? Sorry but I find it amusing that this subject is being debated on a Fri & Sat night - - only in Seattle. Gotta love it!

Anonymous said...

"For a simple example, the use of "breezy" vs. "windy" etc... or "powerful front" vs. "moderate front" if there is a difference that is a standard of some type."

Those aren't subjective terms though...

Justin M. said...

Hey, the National Weather Service uses subjective terminology in their discussions too, let's go attack them!!

Josh said...

So the main point of the discussion was that people who you would assume would like weather (meteorologists) don't, because otherwise they wouldn't use subjective terminology to state a preference for no weather over weather. I'm in the meteorology field myself and have been trying to figure this out for years.

My question for Cliff is/was... you're a university processor and have been around for years. You know many of others in the field, and I'm sure hundreds of students have passed through your classrooms. Of all the people you've met, is there anyone else (what percentage?) in the meteorology field who likes weather? Do they go into it for other reasons, like wanting to know more about it so they can STOP weather from happening?

Josh said...

Sorry, I meant university professor. Typo.

Josh-B said...

Josh....What????

Anonymous said...

I post anonymously because I'm too lazy to go out and find my blogger password every time I want to post. If not for anonymous posting, I wouldn't post at all. And I'm sure the same can be said for the many who don't even have a blogger account.

This is a place where Cliff posts informative articles about the weather. It isn't necessarily a place you go for all holds barred debate about weather terminology.

I think if people want the latter, they should start a blog for that purpose. Criticizing Cliff because he "doesn't provide for open discussion" is ridiculous. Blogs are inherently not an open forum. They are owned by a person.

Mike of MLT said...

For climo man--sometimes when the snow level is at the surface, the level is left out of the forecast. I put it in there today (snow level around 500 feet) but obviously in the PSCZ it was essentially as low as sea level early this morning. It is usually left out of the lowland zones because it is so variable and short term forecasts (NOWSEW) may have more information.

For the Cascades and Olympics, we tend to round it off to 500ft intervals or say less than 1000 feet, and when it is this low say around 500'--and yes, sometimes drop it entirely when it is at the surface. When the forecast is written by the machine, it is often dropped, but the zone forecast usually gets worked over by a forecaster before it is sent out, so I added it today. Hope this helps, undoubtedly our procedures will draw criticism and bewilderment from some, but we are willing to change if enough voices are heard. I like it in there. Keep in mind the errors bars on the forecast are at least 500' a lot of the time.